Putting Joy Over Profitability in Education and Economics

Episode Transcript

Kelly Ryan Bailey  00:00

Good. Hi everyone. This is Kelly Ryan Bailey. Welcome to Let’s Talk About Skills Baby. Each week I chat with inspiring visionaries about the skills that make them successful how they develop those skills and their innovative approaches to improving skills based hiring and learning around the world. Come learn what skills help you live your best life. My guest today is Omar Samra. I hope I got that are correct Omar. Perfect. Thank you so much for joining us. Omar is a entrepreneur, adventure, motivational speaker, and astronaut candidate. He is the first Egyptian to summit Everest, the Seven Summits and ski to both the north and south pole in 2009. Following a career in banking and investing. Omar founded Wild, is it Guanabana? Am I saying that correctly?

Omar Samra  00:59

Yes, yes, that’s perfect

Kelly Ryan Bailey  01:00

Lovely. One of the region’s leading adventure travel companies where he still serves as CEO. Subsequently, Omar founded a handful of initiatives in the education, environment, and adventure space as well as Children’s Charity in his late wife’s honor. Omar is an astronaut candidate. Do you pronounce it possum? Or is it the actual acronym?  Project Possem, yeah.  Project Possem, okay. Having undergone various space trainings, and served as vice commander of Lunaris Three, a 15 day moon analog mission conducting research on lunar habitability. That’s really fascinating. In 2017, Omar made three first assents of the Antarctica mountains and named them, and that is actually one of them pictured behind him right now. If he moves his head, we can see him actually on the mountain which is pretty fabulous. So for those of you who are listening on the podcast, this is going to give you a reason to jump over to the YouTube and take a quick peek. He rode 1000 kilometers across the Atlantic Ocean before capsizing in a storm. His survival story, which also sheds light on the plight of refugees crossing dangerous seas was made into a documentary that screened at the Cannes Algune film, Cairo and Berlin Festivals to worldwide acclaim. Omar is a former goodwill ambassador to the UNDP and an honorary ambassador to Nepal. Omar, thank you so much for joining us today.

Omar Samra  02:41

Thank you so much for having me. Really excited to do this. I think it’s been a few weeks in the making. So really looking forward to it.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  02:48

I’m looking forward to it as well, Omar, and I know like a lot of what we discussed prior to hitting record is especially prevalent not only in this time, but I mean for me personally. So I am just really excited to hear a bit more about your story. And if I may, I’d love to start with I think something that a lot of us tend to go through which is these sort of like transformations in our life and one that you made early, which was this investment banker who sort of turned but maybe not the turn wasn’t so out of the question, because I think it was more turning into your unique self and some of the things you were really interested in. I would love to hear a little bit more about that.

Omar Samra  03:28

Yeah, I mean, so I was one of these people that when I graduated, you know, from school, I had no idea what I wanted to study at University. And I did pretty well in school, and then subsequently really well University. But then when I graduated again, I had no idea what I wanted to do for a living. And I kind of fell into investment banking, just like probably a lot of people that were in investment banking. I mean, there were people there that were sort of carrier investment bankers through and through, but most of us were just kind of a bit lost. And, you know, we did this because at the time we were talking about the year 2000, this was sort of the kind of job to have sort of thing. I did it, it was it was in London, so I got the opportunity to leave Egypt and travel and work abroad and so on. But it you know, very quickly, I realized it wasn’t serving me anymore. I wasn’t feeling the impact that I was creating. I didn’t really realize, you know, there was no direct line from what I’m doing on a day to day basis, and how I can see this impact on society or what’s going on around me. Eventually, I ended up shouldering a backpack, quitting my job, something that was extremely scary and I thought about for about a year and a half before I had the courage to do it. And I went on this long journey. I actually backpacked for about 370 days across Latin America, and then basically spent all the money that I’d saved, had to go back to banking because it’s the only thing that I knew.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  04:59

Sure.

Omar Samra  04:59

And obviously when you’re away from something like that for a long time, your mind sort of deceives you and you forget, you know, one of the blessings of life is that you forget the pain.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  05:08

Right.

Omar Samra  05:09

And then I sort of tricked myself into thinking, you know, it wasn’t so bad, you know, banking, you know, I should go back to that. Went back to it. And then, you know, it just took me a year and a half to remember, like, what it was like, and I did learn amazing skills. I mean, don’t get me wrong. I mean, I think a lot of the success or the, you know, or a lot of the things that I did subsequently, I owe it to that time, you know, that kind of hard work, rigor. It was completely normalized to put in 16 hour days, and, you know, I’m not saying it’s a great thing, but you know, my boss would call me on the weekend and bring me in on the weekend and all of that stuff.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  05:11

Yeah.

Omar Samra  05:12

So we’re a bit of a soldier, you know, and that’s, I think, that generation, my generation, used to approach worked very much in that way. And one of my main learnings, as a, as a manager, later on, when I started up my own businesses was, you know, not to actually look to every staff member, expect them to do the, to do the exact same, because things have changed quite a bit, right?

Kelly Ryan Bailey  06:12

 Yes.

Omar Samra  06:13

But I did eventually decided that I wanted to switch career and, you know, banks, big law firms, places like this are really good at making you believe that you’re not good at anything else. And you become so specialized in your in your department. At the time I worked in syndicated finance, debt finance, you know, things that were very niche, and my job just got more and more specialized over time. And I couldn’t fathom that I would be able to do anything else. I just thought, you know, and I was completely lost. So I actually applied and fortunately got accepted into an MBA program in London, which is with the London Business School. I did that for three years and that really opened up my mind, really opened up my horizons to actually, there were so many things out there so many jobs out there that I didn’t even know existed.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  07:02

Right.

Omar Samra  07:03

And I made it a point that I wasn’t going to apply to any banking jobs, because I would probably get those far easier. And it was a real uphill battle to, you know, to get a job to switch career. Eventually I ended up landing a job in private equity, which is not banking, but it’s still in the finance realm. But this is a much more exciting kind of field because you buy stakes in companies, and you help the management sort of turn it around, and you create jobs and so on. But then in 2007, after the Everest expedition, which I did after my MBA, you know, a sequence of events happened, and I found myself taking the plunge and starting up my own business.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  07:44

Wow. Do you think I mean, because this is, this kind of comes to me when I see someone who builds the capabilities within themselves to overcome, let’s say, something that might be a challenge, and in some cases, even scary, like climbing Everest. Or, you know, because I’m assuming you weren’t just like, oh yeah, it’s great. You have to train for that. But when you go through an experience like that, do you think that helps sort of adjust your mindset for when it comes to like your work in life as well?

Omar Samra  08:20

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s for your work in life, but generally, for your life as well. So you learn some valuable lessons about appreciating the simple things in life, right? So that’s something that carries with you in a very powerful way in your day to day personal life and relationships. But also, it’s extremely helpful in work as well. You know, when you get overwhelmed with things when you feel like you know, there’s a mountain of stress on you, it’s almost like the world has hand picked you today to give you a terrible day or something, you can teleport yourself back to those moments back on Everest, you know back somewhere when things were really, you know, really dire. And we were actually in objective danger and all of that, you know, and you couldn’t breathe well. It was, you know, cold, you know, it was stormy, all of that stuff, and you kind of put things back into perspective. So that was one of the main things, but it also teaches you a lot of grit and a lot of perseverance.  And you become very resourceful as well. So you realize, you know, how you can make do or you can do so much with so little. And, you know, one of the really kind of underrated things about climbing or hiking or going out there in the wilderness and things like that is the kind of clarity that you achieve, as an individual, like you have so much time to reflect so much time to be with yourself to be with your thoughts. I mean sure you’re obviously climbing a lot of the times with teams.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  09:13

Yeah.  Right.

Omar Samra  09:41

But still, in that context, you spend so much time by yourself. And it’s a team exercise, but you’re still, you know, you’re still having your own battle in your mind. And it’s your mind constantly telling you, you know, you’re not good enough, you’re too tired, you can just quit now, all of that stuff. And that That kind of mind chatter, the kind of rhetoric that we all go through every, you know, not necessarily every single day, but we go even on our daily lives, right?

Kelly Ryan Bailey  10:08

Of course, that’s what was something we were just talking about. Well, I was quickly sharing right before we hit record that I’m going through that just as we do in life transition moments right now, where I have to continually remind myself like, and really, it’s just my mind that is trying to talk me out of it. And I’m like, no, what I really want to do is what I’m doing. But it’s just our body’s way of like helping us stay safe and protecting us. And that is like a, you know, I’m sure for a lot of people, if you don’t go through that on a daily basis, it’s at least often. And it feels heightened in times of stress, or times of transition, or times of overcoming challenges for sure.

Omar Samra  10:53

Have you gone through your own major changes, like career wise, as well?

Kelly Ryan Bailey  10:57

I have. And I feel like I’m on one of those moments right now to just like you were saying, but for me, the big moment was when I had my third child. So for that point in time, I think I just became so overwhelmed with, you know, having three children, life, the way that work was. I think probably as you may have experienced as that investment banker, like the, you know, working like 90 hours a week traveling all this time, like is this what I really intended, even though I loved it, like is this kind of the life that I was having, and that was about five years ago. And I made the call to step out. And you know, start a consulting business, and try to basically like, refind myself and focus on myself. And I don’t know if it’s this year with COVID, or you know, what’s going on, but I’m feeling this transitional period, again, like there’s this new thing that’s happening with starting the podcast, and like, what is this all going to look like? Like you said, Where are the chips gonna fall because it’s sort of exciting, and yet sometimes scary.

Omar Samra  12:09

Yeah. And this consulting shift was this is how many years ago now?

Kelly Ryan Bailey  12:12

That was about five years ago, when I made that shift. Now I’m not doing, I’m still like sometimes consulting. But for the most part, I also have a full time role, now. Beyond, you know, some of our as we all have our little things that we’re also doing and other initiatives and all. So that’s not my full, I don’t consult full time anymore. I’ve made like a slight transition off of that. But it was it was sort of like at the time, it worked for me, you know?

Omar Samra  12:42

I mean it’s really interesting, because I think the world is changing very rapidly. And when I started my career, I think people used to give a lot of credit and salute people who had a, you know, laser focused career, right. So I remember when I was in investment banking, I worked for HSBC, and for a stint I worked in Hong Kong. And there was a story of a guy who I think was at the time, the second or third person in the bank, and he started in the mailroom. It was one of those stories that you would hear over and over was sort of lower, you know, in the bank and basically, he, it sounds like a movie, you know, he would go with this sort of, you know, little thing that he pushed with all the envelopes and deliver the mail. And he had a huge interest in trading. And he would, he would just kind of when he had time, he would sit and watch the traders and so on. And then one day one of the traders, you know, was sick, and somebody had to, you know, take care of this position. And then they were like, you know, we don’t know what to do, we’re screwed this and that, and he was like, I can do it. He got his shot. And he managed to, didn’t make any money that day, but he didn’t lose any money. And, and then that’s how we got started and eventually became like, and that was maybe, you know, 30, 40 years into his career nowadays, you know, and obviously, there’s people that are very focused, you know, you’ve got, you know, scientists, you know, artists, people who hone the craft over their entire life. But nowadays, you know, it’s, it’s considered, you know, people look up to people who are able to, you know, master so many things. Or be able to kind of pivot very quickly into different things or explore so many different arenas in life, you know, you’ve got, you know, people like Dr. Dre, you know, artists producer, this, this, this, this, and that. And you look at that and you’re like really inspired, whereas in like, you know, my parents generation will be like, this person is lost. He has no idea what, he’s very irresponsible you know?

Kelly Ryan Bailey  14:39

Right. My parents would have said the same thing.

Omar Samra  14:43

Yeah. There was this…

Kelly Ryan Bailey  14:46

It’s very different now, but I am sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt. I was just wondering, as you were saying that though, do you ever find like sometimes you see people that are successful and in all of these pivots, Does that ever feel like overwhelming to you like, can, is that you know, because sometimes I look at that, and I don’t know if we all do, I don’t know if it’s like imposter syndrome, I feel like there’s a term for it, where you’re like, I don’t know if this is, you know, if I can really do this, or you kind of feel bad that you haven’t gotten so far, in the same lifespan. Where I think we all know that our journeys happen at different times. I just often I wonder how you handle that, you know, this idea that you see, like, the comparison to maybe how other people are making these pivots and trying all these different things?

Omar Samra  15:34

Yeah, I mean, obviously, when you look at people who have like, been incredibly successful in multiple careers, sometimes careers, don’t necessarily, are very related to each other, obviously makes you parents stop and think. But I think at the end of the day, the the main thing for me, what I’ve also, you know, learned more and more over the years is that you need to really find joy in what you do. And you’re not going to be able to find joy in everything in life, right? So, I think if you’re searching for fame, or if you’re searching for, you know, career accolades or money or whatever, I think you can look at someone else’s career and think, wow, I want to be that right? But if you’re prioritizing joy, and that’s joy in what you do and who you work with, and then I think it becomes very individualistic and becomes very specific, then, then, you know, a fewer number of things will appeal to you as an individual to do and really kind of have that feeling. Of course, it’s not easy to find that. But I mean, you got to keep searching for it. And the other thing is, you know, the old notion was that once you find it, you know, you stick to it for the rest of your life. But again, you know, I find myself like, I’m somebody who worked in the corporate world. And then, you know, maybe for something like eight to 10 years, and then I made a radical shift into entrepreneurship. Actually, I started my own business. You know, if you had told me, I don’t know, two, three years before, I would have bet against myself. And now I’ve probably started a handful. And the thing is, when I went into the MBA, all I knew is that I didn’t want to study finance, as a core, you know, you have to take a number of courses, but I didin’t want my focus would be finance, or accounting or something, I didn’t want to end up back in that sector. And so I said well, let me just pick the course that I really love. And if that actually turns out to be a concentration great. If it’s just a general thing, then that’s fine. And all the courses most of the courses were entrepreneurship courses, so I ended up graduating with an entrepreneurship concentration.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  17:40

Oh, wow.

Omar Samra  17:40

And I was like, that’s interesting. Maybe I’m just really, like, enjoy the topic, right? And I still discounted the fact that I would ever, because to me, the entrepreneur, it sounded such like a such a, you know, this thing, that’s this unattainable thing. Like, what is one great idea, you know, that’s gonna, and then it happened. And that became my life. And then I can’t really imagine myself going back to doing just one thing or going back to the corporate world. But then the really interesting thing, now it’s been 11 years, I guess, of doing that going down that path. And it’s easy to find yourself over time, not paying attention, I ended up creating for myself a similar situation, where I feel really stressed out. I feel that although I’m very passionate about those businesses, and the impact that they’re creating, but the kind of role that I’m doing in those businesses are just not in my, you know, what I’d love to be doing. And it’s taking a lot out of me, it’s taking a toll and the way that I want to impact the world, and the way I want to do things, is still within these platforms in these businesses, but in a different way. I’m just saying that because sometimes even with the thing that you love, you can create a situation where you start to feel trapped. And it was really COVID that, you know, basically just brought everything to a standstill, because like you said in the beginning, I work in things related to outdoors, travel, you know, sectors that were deeply affected by by COVID-19.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  19:15

Mm hmm. No, that makes a lot of sense. My family owns a bakery and I can say that I actually helped them run the operations of the bakery. But I also had to step in when my stepfather became sick and actually help bake in the bakery. And I’ve grown up baking. And if you asked me prior to that experience, baking was one of the things that I loved to do the most. I would you know, when the holidays came around, I would just love to like, make so many cookies with my kids and my family. And then after that experience, it turned baking for me into something that was no longer enjoyable.

Omar Samra  19:38

Yeah,

Kelly Ryan Bailey  19:46

And I can’t explain what it was, but it just did.

Omar Samra  19:59

No, it’s It’s the same for me that I think the, I think it’s just about realizing what you’re good at, but also what you enjoy the most. And I realized, well, you know, it’s a common trap that people want to do the things that they’re good at, or want to do the things that they’ve achieved success through. And it’s not necessarily the same thing as what brings you joy, or what you should continue to do or that that’s the way you should impact the world. And I found myself that I’m actually really good at coming up with an idea. And then taking this idea into a service or a product, basically establishing proof of concept and getting to profitability. But I’m not so good at then taking that into growth phase. And the growth phase basically becomes, instead of doing this, five or 10 times you need to go 100 or 1000. So becomes about operations, iteration, efficiency, you know, all of that. And so I realized that I’m actually not such a good manager at scale. The operation day to day stuff becomes daunting for me and takes a lot out of me. But then I realized, like, what I’m really good at actually is, you know, is the vision as the strategy is coming up with creative ideas is being able to being able to pivot, spot opportunities. Use my platform and the credibility that I’ve created to really PR  the business and so on and so forth. But I rarely get time to do any of these things when I’m stuck into the day to day.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  21:29

So true.

Omar Samra  21:30

Yeah.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  21:31

How did you recognize in yourself, though, that these were, this was sort of like the part that you love. Because I think that’s what happens is, when you get so stuck in those day to day things, sometimes you lose track. And so how did you determine what pieces of this were really bringing you joy, and also that combination of the joy yet where your strengths lie?

Omar Samra  21:55

Yeah, I mean, well, the parts that, it was more pragmatic than anything else. I mean, some of the businesses were not performing as well as they could, they were performing well, but they weren’t performing as good as they could. Because I was spending, you know, 80% of my time doing the thing that, you know, it’s not that I wasn’t good at, but if I got somebody who’s good at that one thing, they could probably do it far, much better than in far less time. And I realized that when it came to these other tasks, I was able to perform these things much more efficiently than others with much more impact in less time.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  22:35

Got it.

Omar Samra  22:35

Those other things I was talking about, and so it just came naturally to me. But the key was that I was just enjoying that part of it. And it was interesting for me, because I’m a very introverted person by, you know, by just nature. And so being a communicator of ideas, being a person who’s a, like a, sort of a spiritual leader of the business that you create, and that sort of thing wouldn’t have been, if you asked me 15, 20 years ago, it wouldn’t ever be the thing that I thought I would excel at, in business. And because of my banking training, I became very analytical, you know, very process driven this and that. So I thought that this would be my forte, and that’s where my comfort zone was. And so naturally I found myself creating these businesses and just falling into that comfort zone. But then I ended up, you know, putting myself in a place which wasn’t very enjoyable. And the process that I’m living no, is actually just, you know, thinking about every different business. And how do I make myself, you know, almost. Well, the way I see it is like, for every single business, my goal is to work for somebody else.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  23:54

Mm hmm.

Omar Samra  23:55

Because I know that those businesses what they need, now I took them from an idea to where they are, and some of them have been, you know, some of them are one or two years old, some of them have been around for 11 years. And what the business now needs is for me, to have a boss really.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  24:12

Got it.

Omar Samra  24:13

And for a person to tell me, hey Omar, this is what I want you to do. 1234. And then these would be the things that I’m effectively hired to do, so these would be the things that I’m good at, and the things that I enjoy to do right? Because when I hire someone, I want to hire someone who’s good at what they do, and finds, you know, joy and passion of doing that. Right? And so I want to be that guy for that area in the businesses that I’ve created. And so part of it is also taking the ego out of the equation as well.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  24:44

Right? Yeah. So that you like you’re not the one who’s, it’s sometimes hard to do that right. For a lot of people

Omar Samra  24:52

It’s hard to do that. One because of the the sort of the, you know, it’s my baby I created it, this and that. But it’s also hard to do it because, you know, a business’s running, it’s like a wheel in motion to be able to make these radical changes requires some slowing down or, and so, you know, I don’t think, if it wasn’t for COVID, with, you know, with all the, you know, the negativity around it and all the impact and also my life on a personal level in a very negative way, and it was very challenging. But if I have to try to look on the silver lining, it brought everything, almost to a complete standstill. And within that there was tremendous opportunity to kind of look at things after they stopped.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  25:36

Yeah.

Omar Samra  25:36

And it really just hit me that, you know, I would have, I would have probably churned away for another five years, until I came to an absolute collapse, like and just realized, like, what are you doing, you know? And it’s giving me that opportunity. But sometimes, there is no, I hope that we don’t go back to the old normal, like, after in the new world. But so many people are, you know, so many people are fighting so hard to go back to that old normal. And I just I really hope that we don’t as a species, as you know, human beings, because it wasn’t really working out you know?

Kelly Ryan Bailey  26:20

It’s so true, what are the things would, you know, you want to see continue into maybe what could be this new normal?

Omar Samra  26:32

I’m not the person that knows how this is going to make sense on a global level. But I think the economic model that the world operates with, this sort of new neoclassical model of, you know, bottom line, you know, profitability first.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  26:49

Yeah.

Omar Samra  26:51

Sort of no matter what, you know, put the shareholder first always, and this and that, I think that’s an obsolete model, maybe, you know, maybe was perfect 100 years ago, but you know, I don’t know, obviously, we’re, we’re holding on to it, because obviously, you know, it satisfies a lot of, you know, interests and so on. But I think that a new economic model   And it depends on scale. If I’m a small business, I need to benefit my neighborhood. If I’m a large scale business, I need to be, you know, giving back to the world or giving back to my country or whatever else. This is not something that’s impossible. It’s hard to see now because you think, well, the way the world works is just this huge train going at like lightning speed and how do you even stop that, right? But if you look at the past, you realize we’ve done this as a species, we’ve done this so many times, we went from the gold standard to something else. We went more recently from the Keynesian model of economics to the neoclassical model. And this required, like, so many shifts and structures of how things work in politics and economics and so many things. And so, you know, I think it’s ripe for for a knee change. I think it’s coming. The problem is that we’re, that we’re holding on to the old, normal, so hard, and I wish we just let go and make the transition easier. But I know, for example, if we’re talking about the environment, we know now that many power economic groups, for example, like, you know, the Rothschilds and those type. Everybody’s putting their money into renewables, you know, whether people are doing this for the good of the planet, are they doing it, because it makes no business sense. But still, you know, everything is moving that way. You know, people are talking about the economics of abundance, which means in the future, it’s not about scarcity of resources anymore. You know now you have startups that can turn carbon dioxide into fuel, or they can turn like, you know, the air that we breathe into water.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  27:29

Yes.  Yeah.

Omar Samra  29:16

And so that’s going to be a world that’s very, very different. And if you want to talk about skills, we need to talk about, you know, also what are we teaching our kids? I have a seven year old daughter, you mentioned you have three kids. And my daughter goes to a very progressive school compared to, you know, other children her age, but it’s still I have to ask myself the question is what they’re learning in school, preparing them for this world that they’re going to in 10 years, for example, when she graduates will she be prepared? Because we as adults, we don’t even have a clue like how the world’s gonna look like in two years, let alone 10.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  29:58

No it’s so true.

Omar Samra  30:00

Yeah.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  30:01

And the way we were taught too, you know, that’s and it’s this still, like, I love to hear the progressive nature of some areas of education. But in all honesty, a lot of the same traditional models that are built on those economic models that have been around for so long, still the same way that we’re taught as young people in school, and as we continue.

Omar Samra  30:22

Yeah, and still, when I was studying, when I was in school, it was all about grades, it was about homework, it was about, you know, getting into this university, getting into that. When I got into university it was about getting good grades so I can land this job and that job. I mean, even me, as an employer, I don’t think I’ve looked at someone’s where they’ve graduated from. I think I just have a conversation with the person and I talk in the context of business, and I try to assess the person’s character. And if the person seems like a person that I could hang out with, is a nice person, and at the same time, I feel that they’ve got a sense of reality, and a sense of how the business runs, and they feel that they’re, they’re teachable as somebody that’s, you know, open to learn and so on. I think, unless obviously, you’re doing a very technical, like an engineering job, and you require certain qualifications for that. And so, you know, people say, for example, you know, my daughter’s school, because it’s such a novel, education system, it’s not actually accredited.  So all of the parents that I talked to, when they meet my daughter, or I post something online, and they say, oh, where does your daughter…You know, she’s always going on about how much she loves school.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  31:39

Ah, ok.  Yeah.

Omar Samra  31:45

And they’re like, my kids never say that. So they’re like, Where does she go to school? And I say, she goes to this school and this is how they teach them, and this is how it is. And they’re, like, sold onto it. And then when they talk about accreditation, I’m saying what it really isn’t. And then they’re like oh no way, we’re not going to do that. And then they’re like, aren’t you worried about that? And I’m like, first of all, when she graduates, I’m not really sure if universities will still be a thing.  They may not be. I mean, if I can just go on any, like, MITx or one of those platforms and anything under the sun, you know, why pay, I don’t know how many thousands of dollars for an education

Kelly Ryan Bailey  32:16

Yeah. Exactly.

Omar Samra  32:32

No one’s really asking about it, you’ve got, you know, tons of kids who have made like, you know, a hundred times more money than I have that 14 or whatever.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  32:42

Right.

Omar Samra  32:44

And so things are going to be very radically different. Some of it in an amazing way, and some of it in a scary way. But you know, I’m not going to, you know, at that the end of the day, going back to joy, going back to happiness.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  32:57

 Right.

Omar Samra  32:57

My daughter comes back from school.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  32:59

And she’s happy.

Omar Samra  33:01

And that’s all that matters, right?

Kelly Ryan Bailey  33:02

So I’d love to hear like a little bit more about the structure of her school environment. Because this topic for me is very interesting and prevalent because of what I’m going through, definitely with my middle daughter. But I’m recognizing now when I look at the structure of school for all three of my children, I’m like, no, the interesting thing is they all have differing personalities. And we’re trying to teach them all in the exact same way. And why?

Omar Samra  33:31

Yeah, makes no sense. I think the first thing about it is that it’s individualized learning. So, you know, what she’s learning at school is not exactly the same as everybody else. She exists in a small bubble of like, you know, six or seven kids. So obviously, there’s stuff they’re doing together. But she could be doing, you know, grade two math, and grade one English and grade three something else that she really excels at it. So there’s no necessarily a pressure of like, oh, I’m not doing as good as people my age. At the same time, they do a lot of project work. So she gets to collaborate with other people, but also people who are younger than are people that are older than her. At the moment there isn’t, but at one point, there was a special needs child in the school as well. And that was also like, you know, they were integrated as well into that.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  34:20

That’s amazing.

Omar Samra  34:21

There’s a level of freedom. She can walk barefoot in the school. I mean, that’s a big thing for me. A lot of parents are like….

Kelly Ryan Bailey  34:30

Cause she can jut be her.

Omar Samra  34:32

Yeah, she can wear whatever she wants, you know. When she was in nursery, like they had this room where they had all kinds of different costumes. And so the first time I walked into the school, she wasn’t there yet, I was I was still looking at the school. And I was walking with the principal and she was showing me the nursery and stuff. And I just saw this kid wearing a lions outfit and just sort of roaring and walking around and I was like, what’s going on? And she’s like, well, he just wanted to be a lion for the whole day. He wanted to act his entire day of school as a lion. And that’s cool.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  35:05

Yeah.

Omar Samra  35:06

And you know, when I was going to school, I would probably would have been in detention or like gotten a ruler on my wrist or whatever else, you know?

Kelly Ryan Bailey  35:16

Yep.

Omar Samra  35:16

And, I can see the impact on her. And obviously, I tried to also, you know, we’re talking about these mountains, you know, I named the mountain after her. Like with the hope that one day she’ll, she’ll be like, maybe I’ll go to Antarctica and try to climb Mount Hilo, whatever.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  35:35

Right.

Omar Samra  35:36

But I try to talk to her in a way where there is no, there’s no ceiling, you know, like you could achieve anything you want in life. I don’t think that’s the same rhetoric that a lot of our parents had for us. It was coming out of a good place.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  35:51

Of course.

Omar Samra  35:53

They wanted to keep us safe, and so on. But you know, what, like, my mom was, bless her. I mean, she was she was actually my inspiration for a lot of things. Because my two other sisters are special needs and she opened the first private school in Egypt for special needs, and so on and so forth. So her life has just a big uphill battle. But because I first quote unquote, like, normal kid in the family, she was overly protective, like all the time about everything. And, you know, at the end of the day, what did I do? I went off climbed Everest and did these things. And, and so I tell her, you know, jokingly, like, it’s your fault, right? You held me, you protected me so much that I just went. And maybe if you hadn’t been so protective, who knows, but like, maybe I wouldn’t have gone to the extreme. So, we just have to kind of let them be right?

Kelly Ryan Bailey  36:50

Right? No, I love that. And I think it’s just such an interesting way to think about learning, especially at the young ages, because I’m finding that to be, you know, we’re shaping sort of this next generation. Like we talk about this future, and what that will look like that we all don’t know yet. And it’s really fascinating to see all the changes that are happening afoot, like along the way. So for you, Omar, like what I know, you mentioned, you’re going through transition now too. So you know, I know, it sounds like you’re looking for your bosses, but for your existing things, but what else is next for you.

Omar Samra  37:27

So basically, the, I mean, it’s hard to articulate it really well, because I’m in flux, let’s say. I’m trying to discover myself. I turned 40 a couple of years ago, and I look at this as my second life, you know? And so the second life is basically I’m trying to learn from quote, unquote, like the not mistakes, but like, the things that I could do better. I want to create more impact, in the sense of I want to impact more and more people’s lives in a positive way. I’m very passionate about the environment, so I want to play a role as much as I can to, you know? The next decade is crucial in terms of, you know, if we’re able to turn this thing around.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  38:14

Right.

Omar Samra  38:15

Education is something I’m very passionate about, like we were talking. I’m trying to be involved with a group of people who are trying to, you know, sort of turn the education model on its head, and so on and so forth. But basically, it’s, you know, I would love to be able to focus on the things that, you know, bring me the most joy, the things that create the most impact. And do more of that. I mean obviously, for every single business, there’s a specific plan and so on. But I’m also trying to sort of blur the lines between business and spirituality. You know, I want to be able to look at the businesses that I’m running or the projects that I’m involved in as an extension of myself, but you know, not just an extension of myself in terms of what I do on a day to day basis, but in terms of my beliefs, my convictions, my value system, and so on and so forth. And at the end of the day, I definitely want to work less in terms of time and effort and so on…

Kelly Ryan Bailey  39:28

Sure.

Omar Samra  39:28

But do more. So trying to get more into a creative space. And so, you know, obviously when you’re living your second life I don’t foresee I mean, I still have a few mountains in me and so on and so forth. But I’m not gonna have the same, you know, appetite to take in as much risk, or to push myself physically as much. But that was my way of creating impact and influencing the world in my own way at that time. So it’s about being able to figure out another way to be able to do that, that is, potentially is not necessarily physically and mentally taxing in that same way, but maybe it’s spiritually taxing. Maybe I have to ask myself hard questions, maybe I have to make friends with, you know, things about me that I don’t actually like, but they’re just part of who I am. And now I have to just, you know, own up to them and just kind of, I guess, it’s just a becoming of being, like, you know, like, we were talking before we hit record about, like, just being, you know, just becoming more of who you are, discovering who that who that person really is.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  40:50

Completely. What you’re saying, just speaks so much to where I feel to and I wonder, you know, I’m I turned like, I was saying, was it COVID this year, but I also turned 40 this year. So, you know, I wonder if you hit this point, like, I love how you described this as this next, like life, which is just sort of like this, you know, the journey continued, right? Like maybe down a different path, which I absolutely love that analogy, I think I’m gonna have to, like, quote that. But, you know, we, it’s so true. Like, we get to, you know, you do these certain things. And it’s like, right, that might not be the rest of our life. But how do we adjust and pivot? And how do we figure that out. I kind of love that you couldn’t put all the words to it, because I can’t either. And that is actually I almost want to say that’s not a bad thing, because we’re just on it. Like, we’re, we’re on the journey, we’re on the path, we’re trying to navigate it and just determine where, where the next turn is.

Omar Samra  41:54

Yeah, I’ll tell you something. Like, when I when I talked about quitting banking, the first time, traveling the world and so on, there was a moment in time when…You know, in the Middle East, you live with your parents far longer than than you guys, right? Or maybe in Europe. The US is slightly different. But we don’t get kicked out of our parents house, we fight to leave it, you know, it’s usually like you stay with your parents until you’re married and stuff. So I left my parents home at 21, which was considered radical, like for those days back home. And I went working in London, and so on, and so forth. And so for the time, until you’re in your parents, ones that are, you know, paying for your education, and they’re paying for you for your food and everything else. And so when I got a job, and I started, like, you know, basically completely financially independent and so on the first time my dad came to London, and I invited him for dinner, that was a momentous occasion. You know, that was sort of me becoming a man type thing for him.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  42:52

Oh, wow.

Omar Samra  42:54

When we were having that dinner, I had already made the decision that I was going to quit banking and travel the world. That wasn’t the most popular idea for my parents and my dad as well. And we had a very heated conversation but civilized. And, you know, in the end, he said, listen, like, I don’t think you’re making the right decision. Because, of course, when I told him, I’m leaving the bank, he was like, which other bank are you joining? So I told them well I’m going backpacking. He’s like why can’t you just travel for a week or two? Why can’t you just be like a normal human being, and so on. And I ended up sort of saying, well, I need to travel for a year, I need to discover myself. But what I’m getting to is that I didn’t have the words at the time to articulate why I wanted to do this. I knew that there was something inside me that was burning, that I was passionate about. I didn’t even understand, you know, why I was doing it made no rational sense to me. And it was scary and everything else had I waited until I had the words, you know, for other people for myself to make sense of it, and then do it the time would have passed. But just I held on to the notion that me feeling this feeling that I have, this intuition that I have, that this is what I need to do. I thank God that I had this sort of belief at that time at a young age to say, I’m going to trust that I’m going to go with it, even though it makes no sense. And it doesn’t even make any sense to me. And in the end, I ended up traveling was the best year of my life. I came back and the world didn’t end, I got given a job at the same bank again. They were crazy to hire me again  but they did, because I quit three years later, again. But if I had stood there and said like, you know, what am I going to do? You know, I’m not going to be able to find a job. Employers are gonna look at my CV and be like, this guy is unpredictable. And so I feel like I’m at the same transition there. Sometimes it’s more scary when you’re older, because you know, you’re more set in your ways and you’re like, I can’t make a mistake now. You know, I’ve got too many responsibilities.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  44:53

Right.

Omar Samra  44:53

But I think it’s about trying to live your life, embracing the child in you always. You know, when I look at my my daughter, I take a lot of inspiration out of that, and I’m looking at her and friends. And it’s basically just like, you know, you’re so natural. You know, you meet some people who are like in their 60s, 70s, 80s.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  45:15

They still have that.

Omar Samra  45:17

The way they move, the way they talk, they still have that. I think that’s the key. You know, we talked about joy, but I think it’s this, it’s this, you know, childlike kind of joy, excitement about life.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  45:30

Right?

Omar Samra  45:31

Foolhardiness, you know, willing to kind of just on a drop of a dime, take a radical decision and, and figure it out later type thing. And it’s amazing to have a childlike spirit. But then armed with all these skills, and all these all that know how and knowledge and wisdom and

Kelly Ryan Bailey  45:50

Like this wisdom, exactly.

Omar Samra  45:52

That you created, you know, over the over the course of the years, but also going back to spirituality, the wisdom that you can tap into just from the consciousness, you know, the the lives around us. So yeah, it’s an exciting time, historians will look back at this time, you know, 50 years from now 100 years from now, all the time, that was of a great shift, I think.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  46:21

Oh, yeah.

Omar Samra  46:21

 Just like the ice age or, you know, this type of stuff. And, you know, and it’s perspective, at the end of the day. I mean, we can look at this time, as you know, sort of the one of the darkest times of our recent history, you know, and in many ways it is. And you know, I’m somebody who lost both my sisters in a span of a month this summer, due to COVID. So, I talk about it completely understanding how, how difficult things are. And, you know, it’s something that I’m still grieving, I’m still, you know, working with, but but you can also see it as a time of, you know, just the rebirth, and just an opportunity to really realign again with who we are, and then move forward. Because I think the world is going to need, you know, not just one or two of us doing that it’s going to need, you know, most of us, you know, thinking that way?

Kelly Ryan Bailey  47:20

Yes. You’ve just put words to the exact feeling that I’ve been having, which is like, I cannot describe fully what it is. But it’s a feeling that I have inside that just feels 100% right. And that’s when I feel myself getting overwhelmed, as we do in these times of like, the new thing. I like I call it like my gut check where I just like, check in with myself, does this still feel right to me? Because like, maybe all the things aren’t happening the way we hope and as quickly and all of those things. But when I know that it feels right, I’m like, okay, everything else is gonna be fine.

Omar Samra  48:00

Yeah. And that’s the one inalienable truth, right? That’s like, everything is going to be okay. Regardless, I remember again, like, you know, my wife passed away seven years ago, and that’s the children’s charity that I run is, now I sit on the board of is, is named after her. I remember, you know, in the darkest of times, like the first three months, you know, and I went to an energy healer, and I was like, you know, I was in pieces. And you know, as he was performing the healing, I had just tears sort of running down my cheeks and everything else. And at the end of the session, he was debriefing me and everything. He said, you know, pretty much like, pretty much all your chakras are closed, and your’re going through turmoil and all of this. And he said, there is this storm that is happening. But deep down, I could sense the core in you a part of you that believes that everything is going to be okay.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  49:00

Wow.

Omar Samra  49:01

And it was such a profound moment for me, because for that moment when he said it for just a split second, I could feel that part of me.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  49:09

Mm hmm.

Omar Samra  49:10

And then it was a long process of of getting to that true north.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  49:18

Right. back to the center.

Omar Samra  49:21

Yeah, I knew that it wasn’t gonna be something that would happen in a week or a few months or whatever. It was gonna take time. But the the belief that everything was going to be okay. Is something that’s that’s really powerful.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  49:35

It’s so true. I normally, at the end of the sessions Omar, I asked someone like open endedly, what would you like to share with the audience is your parting thoughts and I almost feel like you’ve just answered that.

Omar Samra  49:49

I don’t want to try and top that.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  49:51

I know because I’m like, because it’s so true. The thought of everything that everything is going to be okay. And the way that you’ve described your story that just like I feel resonates so deeply. But I do want to give you that time that if there is anything else you’d like to share, you’re more than welcome to.

Omar Samra  50:08

Yeah, I mean, I think we’ve shared quite a lot to be honest. You know, in the last sort of, you know, weeks and months, you know, during the COVID time, you know, like I said, I’ve gone to a lot of turmoil and a lot of challenges. And I, know, a lot of people personally that have also the same and I’ve, you know, gotten to know others, and I watch the news and things like that. But I think the thing that gives me a lot of comfort, you know as well is, I don’t think there’s any other time in history where the entire world has been united going through almost the same reality together. And I personally, you know, been able to get a lot of comfort out of that. I’ve had the opportunity to, you know, to be on calls with people in India and in Nepal, and places like that. Because you know, my travel business, is an international travel business, so I have a lot of partners all over the world. And you there have been times when, you know, Ebola is happening in Africa, so you know, our part of business in that part of the world has to stop and we shift business somewhere else. We run a trips in 20 different countries, and literally every single person’s been affected the exact same way.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  51:25

Yeah.

Omar Samra  51:25

And so that is actually brought us so much closer, that’s just through the my own circle of connection. But even on a subconscious level, it’s brought us all very much closer to each other, even people that we don’t actually know. And I think so there’s an opportunity, there’s a time where the world can start to really heal itself, and mend itself, not just the environment, but also people’s relationships and all the polarity that exists in the world today, and the polarization of ideas and so on. I think this is the time, this is the opportunity to do that. So I really hope that anybody who’s watching this, you know, that, you know, in any thing, any conversation, whether it’s about politics, whether it’s about business, whether it’s about anything else is to, to just have this belief that there’s always room for discourse. And we should spend more time in this place where conversation happens and ideas are exchanged, and so on and so forth. Because, you know, the the internet’s an amazing place, and it’s given us the opportunity now to have this conversation. But it’s also created so much polarization and ideas, and we’ve become so guarded and just wanting to put our thoughts together and just shout them above things. And so, yeah, I think there’s a there’s a huge opportunity to, to really, you know, heal ourselves. And I think if we, and and the planet, and I think if we, you know if we all work on that together, and I think if we give it a chance, I think we’ll be in good shape.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  53:03

I totally agree, Omar. Those are some wonderful parting thoughts. This is a collective moment that we have never experienced globally. And let’s definitely use that to our advantage. For all of you that would like to keep tabs on Omar because it sounds like wherever the chips may fall, as you say, Omar, there’s a lot of exciting things in your future. Omar is very active on his Instagram account at Omar Samra. And I know he does have accounts on all the socials but that is the most active one. So definitely go check out, follow him. There’s more to come. And I want to thank everyone for listening in today to Let’s Talk About Skills Baby. Would love to get some feedback on this episode and also other episodes, some suggestions on topics that you’d like to hear. You can find this on the YouTube on Spotify on iTunes, go ahead and leave some there or you can message me directly and follow me on the socials at Kelly Ryan Bailey. Thank you, Omar, so much for joining us today. It has been such an absolute pleasure.

Omar Samra  54:15

Thank you so much, Kelly. I really enjoyed it. Passed really quickly. I can’t believe we’re already at the end and I look forward to many more.

Kelly Ryan Bailey  54:24

Same here. Bye, everyone.