Let’s Talk About the Great Resignation

Episode Transcript

Kelly: [00:00:00] Welcome back to Let’s Talk About Skills, Baby, the podcast where we discover what skills can help you live your best life. Now, let’s talk about skills, baby. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Let’s Talk About Skills, Baby. We’re joined today by Michelle Smith and Sari Weinerman. If you guys are not familiar with the podcast Got Skills, they are the host of that podcast. Sari is also the producer of our wonderful podcast, Let’s Talk About Skills, Baby. And Michelle is also the Entrepreneur in Residence over at Skills Baby.

Really glad that you guys were able to join us today. We’re here to discuss the theme for our upcoming season, Season 3 of Let’s Talk About Skills, Baby. Thank you guys so much for joining today.

Michelle: Excited to be here.

Sari: Yeah, thanks for having us. So, Kelly, [00:01:00] let’s just go right in the theme for Season 3 is going to be ‘The Great Resignation’. This is something that we’re hearing talked about all the time, certainly a word that caught on really quickly, and I think a lot of people are relating to it. So why was this the theme and tell us why this is the direction we’re going in?

Kelly: Well, I should first say, let me describe what the great resignation is for anyone that may not have heard of that term before. The idea of the great resignation is just the millions of people that have been leaving the workforce or have lost jobs, or have decided on career transitions because of the COVID-19 pandemic.

The reasons behind why these transitions were made are plenty. There are people that are using this moment in time to rethink what their priorities are in life, of course. are people in certain industries that unfortunately did not survive [00:02:00] and weren’t able to move into virtual environments.

So there’s a number of reasons of why this great resignation is happening, but it truly just is the idea that people are moving out of the workforce. reason that I was so excited to choose this particular theme was because, in all honesty, I really feel like a lot of what we’ve been talking about are things that have been going on for quite some time, that have been laying under the surface. And the pandemic really shined this beautiful light on them in certain ways.

We often talk about this silver lining of this really difficult moment, and it sort of brought all these challenges that were occurring right to the surface. And so for me, I’m not really surprised that this is happening. I’m kind of like it’s about time, number one. But also I think the interesting part about it is that there’s so many different ways that this is affecting not only businesses, but it’s affecting educational [00:03:00] needs.

It’s sort of changing this concept of what we coined as like the future of work. Right? It’s changing the way that we’re looking at this in this huge way. And I think it’s the first time that we will see this amount of people being able to make change in the way the world of work, works. Michelle, do you want to add anything to that?

Michelle: Sure. I mean, Kelly, I think you did such a good job of explaining like the broad scope of what this great resignation is. For me personally, what I also find fascinating is that this is the first time, at least in my professional life, that there’s just such a high number of job openings and not enough people to fill the positions.

 It’s created this unique opportunity for talent across all industries to really leverage all those skills that they have on within their docket and make some big transitions that they might’ve been thinking about for a long time. It’s just a much friendlier out there for that right now. [00:04:00]

Kelly: You bring up a really good point because with this great resignation and a lot of the changes that are happening in terms of like these demographic shifts that we tend to talk about. So women leaving the workplace and millions of women leaving the workplace because caregiving.

This is actually causing a demographic drought, meaning that there is not enough talent to go around. And so this is this moment where businesses are being pushed on to determine how or might there be alternatives to the way we’re looking at hiring? And so I feel like what you’re describing with people having this opportunity to look at various employment out there in different ways. companies are looking at new and innovative ways try to work with these folks as well. So that’s an interesting flip side of that.

Michelle: Yeah. Yes, exactly.

Sari: Something that I want to just double-click [00:05:00] on from what you said earlier, is that this was always happening. This was bubbling up under the surface and the pandemic was the thing that helped it boil over. And so when we talk about that, we’re really addressing the needs people had for years, maybe even decades, right?

To have work better fit into their lifestyle. I mean, this could take us to a whole other conversation, but the fact that in our country health care is dependent on your job, creates a whole set of circumstances that are really very difficult. When you then look at, let’s say you had a job pre pandemic that was for lack of a better turn of phrase, like wiped out because of the pandemic.

Now you also don’t have health insurance in the middle of a global health crisis. And so health insurance and work is just one aspect of this. You have so much with education and caretaking and I mean, the list is really endless, but the biggest thing we can see here is that all of us [00:06:00] as part of the workforce have had to confront what it means to us to work, right?

Why we take certain jobs? Why we feel we need to take certain jobs? And also as a society, it’s shown us what we deem as most important. You know, the jobs that became so quickly available or on the front line, these were things that most people probably looked at those jobs and didn’t want them prior. And we could go into all of those reasons, right. Hours, pay, a lot of that probably not up to the standard that it should be. But it really caused a reckoning with so many people to look at why it is they work.

For companies. I don’t run a big company or anything, but I think that there’s gotta be some level of responsibility for you to look at what you’re providing to the world and to your workforce. There’s a bigger [00:07:00] thing here. If the majority of jobs are going to be shifting in a certain area or, let’s pick an industry that you guys have been mentioning where there’s not enough people to fill these jobs, right?

So the jobs are there, but there’s not enough people wanting to fill it. Well, why is that? Why is it that there aren’t people wanting to step into those roles? What can we do to make this a better place for us to work?

I see you nodding your head, so I’m throwing it over to you, Kelly.

Kelly: You’ve just hit so many things right there. One of the things we want to dig into in this season is why we’re seeing that. I think we can all probably speculate here why certain jobs are left unfilled, and in many cases, I think it’s because it’s just they’re not providing the financial resources, the timing doesn’t work.

I know I always press on working mothers, but of course I [00:08:00] am one, so help but consider the fact that just caregiving. So if you’re to be at a place during a certain number of hours, and you’re not being paid enough to afford childcare and childcare facilities that closed in droves.

And also we lost how many people in that workforce, because they were so underpaid. It’s sort of this catalyst moment where all of these pieces have been hit. And so I be surprised that something might make someone unhappy or it doesn’t work for what’s going on in their personal life.

Sari: Yeah. And I think we finally all collectively, I’m going to say we as a society, as a workforce, feel the permission to question that and what I love so much about how you have set up season one and two, and just your whole drive behind Skills Baby, is that you have been saying this whole time that [00:09:00] whether it’s caretaking, whether it’s even just your physical health or your mental health, there’s reason that we all need flexibility with work and life. There’s a reason that work-life balance is a thing, right? There was a reason that nine to five became the structure, but there’s also a reason why that needs to change. And we’re finally looking at why.

And so it’s very easy to look at it from the aspect of caregiving, right? Just the ability to be there for your child when you need, but even if your childless, there’s so much in your life. I’ve heard so many people say it’s “so great that I don’t have to go into the office on Fridays anymore because now I can actually go to my doctor’s appointments.”

And it’s like, yeah. That is something that is so out of the realm of what we thought we could have balancing work and life. And now we’re actually taking a moment to say, hold on, I think there’s gotta be a better way for us to do this. And what we have seen in so many cases, is that working from home or working in a [00:10:00] more flexible situation is possible across most industries.

I am very curious about the industries where there is not so clearly those changes that you can make in flexibility. Being in a doctor’s office, you have to be there. Being onsite to build a building, you have to be there. But that doesn’t mean that there can’t still be attention towards this need for balance, this need for flexibility. And putting everyone’s wellbeing at the forefront of what we care about rather than the productivity of a company.

Kelly: Yeah. As you were describing that, of course I was thinking at first people in a hospital, they have to be there. If I’m working at a grocery store it might be difficult if I’m not there, but it is surprising how many in, even in just those two fields, have options. Because now of course we are ordering so much [00:11:00] more online. And so especially groceries and that kind of stuff.

And so we’re finding that they may need less in the actual store and more doing other activities. It doesn’t mean that those employees might not have to be there invisible. It’s just in a slightly different way, but it’s the same. I’m finding not necessarily in a hospital environment, but in a healthcare environment, as in doctor’s offices, they do have now virtual visits.

Of course, in the case of an emergency where you need to be seen, that’s going to be a front facing situation. But in others, if it’s just a regular checkup or something like that, that doesn’t require that might actually be able to happen virtually now. And I know I’ve had appointments for the kids that have happened virtually.

So I think it’s fascinating to see these changes. We’ve talked for many years about automation and how that has been affected work as well. And this has changed and I say, and [00:12:00] those aren’t necessarily automation, examples, but think about everything that we’ve so quickly changed to do online in such a short period of time.

And it’s fascinating to me how much more is becoming technology enabled. I think people tend to get scared of the word automation, like my job is going to go away. It actually just means your job is changing. It means there’s going to be more opportunity. You just have to be ready to pivot towards that opportunity.

But of course, this is what makes that sometimes difficult is that people don’t understand what it takes to pivot. And I think that’s the other reason why I get so excited about this topic is because we’re going to have a couple of people that have made a career transitions in particular on, so that they can talk a little bit about what skills were really important in their transitions. And then also even individuals like career coaches that will be on to talk a little bit about what they’ve been seeing from a business environment, and even folks in [00:13:00] HR that will be talking about what helps them navigate the chain from a skill perspective across their employee base.

So I think those will be really interesting learnings, but I’d love Michelle, if you can jump in here, because of course we don’t often talk about your day job, but it’s actually quite relevant, and the work that you’re doing there so please feel free to jump in and share what you’re seeing not only in the students that you guys are working with but also new employees and stuff.

Michelle: Oh, of course. Thanks, Kelly. Yeah. I was like, wow this is hitting the nail on the head of what I do every day. So for those who don’t know, my day job is with Amazon running an apprenticeship program for mechatronics and robotics. So I specifically work with about 1300 apprentices around the country.

I’m training them for the new technologies that we’re implementing into our warehouse facilities. And something that you said in particular about how some folks get nervous about automation and what it means for their jobs. That’s a daily [00:14:00] conversation that I have with the students that I work with.

And what’s really fascinating is that so many of them come into this program and they say, oh, I’ve been so concerned about like what technology means for me specifically, I’m working within the fulfillment centers or delivery stations for Amazon. And it’s been really interesting being a part of this program to learn, oh my capability to work within this arena is very much still there. It’s just shifting. And it’s actually getting me into a more skilled role through our program in particular, to be able to maintain the technology that’s implemented, instead of doing some of the more repetitive tasks that are less interesting, honestly, for a person.

So it’s been really fascinating getting to be at the forefront of that conversation, at the ground level, the scale that Amazon is able to do to have these folks trained in the new technology and just really experienced that in a specific industry firsthand.

Sari: That is super cool. And I like [00:15:00] this framework of the new technology, because I think something a lot of us tend to forget, is that this is what happens. Historically we go through shifts in changing technology that ended up changing and shaping how we feel about work, our legislation about work.

An example that I love to use is that the 9-5 workday came about in the 1920s. It was introduced by the Ford motor company and it became standardized by the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1938 to protect factory workers. And now that we’re a hundred years later,

Michelle: Oh, wow.

Sari: It makes sense that now we’ve got new technology, that’s going to mandate perhaps different hours. Certainly different sets of skills that need to be learned, certainly [00:16:00] different requirements. It’s a shift.

And when you look back over a hundred years, you can see how much has really changed. Right? So the fact that now the way we govern labor needs to change, or even just the way we think about it needs to change actually makes a whole ton of sense.

Kelly: It’s so makes sense. I’m glad you brought that up too, because it it’s just funny to think back. When you first said the date, I was like, oh, a hundred years?

Michelle: I did not know that day off hand. So that is pretty astounding to think about.

Kelly: Definitely. And there’s so many other policies around this. I mean, in all honesty, I talk sometimes about, this doesn’t necessarily work for every job, but I often wonder why work is still time-based. Like we’re paid off of the amount of time we work versus the outcome. This is something that I hear often, especially in the consulting work that I do.

It’s like, well, you know, I’ll pay you hourly. Well, as it turns [00:17:00] out something might be able to be accomplished in a shorter amount of time and does that mean it’s less valuable?

Sari: And I mean, there’s like a popular meme or something on the internet that shows, it says something like, if you’re paying me to do X amount of work for 10 hours, you’re also paying me for the 10 years of experience that I have to be able to do that. And I love that. I also think that this brings us into a conversation about even status, right?

Like there are jobs out there where you do get paid for what you know, not how much you work. And we can all tell that that’s a level we’re all wanting to be at, yes because we can see a higher salary attached to that usually. But at the same time, it’s because there’s a level of just like dignity that’s there, right?

There’s a level of celebration of what you’ve done. You’re not being reduced to tasks. [00:18:00] What you know, what you think, how you feel, what you studied is celebrated when you’re not looking at it like this. And so that’s also why, I mean, talk about the other legislation, like minimum wage, right.

And this is not a podcast about that. And we could have one, right. But when you look at the fight to increase minimum wage, how difficult that is? Of course there’s a hyper-focus on how much a dollar is worth for what you can do. And that’s causing so much harm to the ability for workers, right?

The capabilities to be seen for people to be able to move flexibly and for people to also just have a work-life balance.

Kelly: It’s a really good point. And I think the other thing too, Sari, that’ll be interesting for us to explore on this upcoming season is just how these changes, even in things like minimum wage, salaries, paying employees [00:19:00] in general, and other resources that we’re all providing employees and this can be large business, medium, small business.

But I think the idea of how we’re able to explore how that is also affecting the business side will be quite interesting, because I sort of sit in the middle of being a small business owner in family business in food and service, and sort of hearing that piece. And then also being a small business owner in terms of more of a consulting type work or the work we do with the podcast.

And then also understanding it at a corporate level. And it has very different implications because in the food and service type business, when you’re an owner, as much as you might want to provide let’s say health insurance to your employees, the business would never be able to survive.

And so that’s why when you go back to these policies around how this all works, because [00:20:00] that is part of this, it’s part of the equation. This has a lot of complexity to it. It’s not in a scary way, just in a way that we have to consider that we might say, Hey, this is a really great idea and this is going to help so many people, but what also won’t help people is if we lose a lot of small and medium-sized businesses, and that’s been part of what’s happened in this pandemic, especially in that industry.

And so how do we put measures in place so that we’re protecting that as well?

Sari: I love that. I love that you have presented it as not a problem that we’re going to solve Immediately. We’re certainly not solving it on this podcast, but the openness to have these conversations. And to be able to have them heard on a larger scale. I think that is what is super important because it allows us to have a little bit more agency and perhaps like a larger stake in what solutions could be out there.

 It’s so important to note that [00:21:00] there may be a business out there, as you said that like, they want to be able to provide the benefits that they feel they should be morally. But then from just the plain facts of it, the realistic, the numbers, it’s hard to actually accomplish.

And so how do we fix that? And I think that is something that everybody experiences whether they’re a business owner or you’re somebody working for that business. There’s always going to be this level of push and pull. And just the more that we know, the more that we have open conversations about it, and the more that we’re willing to accept that there might be a better way – I think that’s how we get to the next step.

And so everything that Skills Baby stands for, this push for skills-based hiring and learning. This is on that frontier of being able to say, look, there is a way that can be better.

We may not have every answer mapped out but there’s a way, and we want to keep talking about it. And so I am so honored to be a part of this [00:22:00] project. Let’s keep talking about skills, baby. We’re so excited for Season 3, for everything that’s to come and come back and take a listen, and then please join us in the conversation.

We want to keep talking about it.

Kelly: Yes, please do. Thank you guys so much for joining and talking about this. We cannot wait for you guys to tune in. Keep an eye out for Season 3, coming soon. You’ve been listening to Let’s Talk About Skills, Baby. A Growth Network Podcasts production. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe to the podcast and share it with yo