Investing in Your Niche Interests

Episode Transcript

SB S1 E2 – Tony Tsai

Kelly: [00:00:00] Hi, everyone. Welcome to Let’s Talk About Skills, Baby. I’m your host Kelly Bailey. I’m joined here by our guest, Tony, and Tony I just realized that I’m going to completely, I want to say Tsai, but am I butchering your last name? I’m sorry.

Tony: Oh no, that’s good. Yeah, it’s Tsai. Exactly.

Kelly: Oh, perfect. I’m glad I got it right.

I know it’s been a little while since we chatted last than I, you know, going by what I thought, but let me give a little intro to Tony so that everyone knows his background. So Tony is a teacher who works to bring greater meaning and purpose into higher education. He is currently working at the University of Utah’s School of Medicine as the Director of Leadership and Development. His background in leadership and development began while serving as an officer in the US Army. And he also has extensive experience in career development, which started when he ran, and when we met, at the Career Center at the School of Business at the University of [00:01:00] Michigan.

If you guys want to follow Tony, by the way he is available on Twitter, LinkedIn and facebook@antoniutsai.com. And just so for spelling, that is A N T O N I U S T S A I. So Tony, thank you so much for joining us today. I hope I did that justice.

Tony: Thank you so much. It’s great to be here. And of course, when I say here, I mean, in my, in my bedroom, but it’s COVID times, right?

Kelly: Where are you joining us from? Anyway, Tony?

Tony: Yeah, I have a nice home office now, and so a lot of us have like these alternative workplaces that we’ve staked out and so I was able to create one for myself, so yeah.

Kelly: That’s really nice. I like the background there too. So I wanted to start off a little bit, maybe more on the personal level and if you could just give us a little bit of a story on your personal journey would love to hear that.

Tony: Yeah. I’ve had a [00:02:00] pretty unconventional career where I had to quote unquote, reinvent myself quite often. And so this, this idea of skills is actually very, very important. I started off in the military and then when you get out of the military, I mean, I was a platoon leader. I knew how to do, I knew how to do tanks, but of course, real world tanks, the tank skill is not in high demand. And so they have to transfer.

Sorry, my microphone fell off. Okay. So what does a transferable skill? And it was about leadership development. And so with the business school I learned finance and then as well as organizational development. I worked for a little bit in corporate finance, then decided that I actually quite liked teaching more. And so I, I eventually left my corporate finance job and went into work in higher ed, now at the University of Utah.

Kelly: That’s great. [00:03:00] Thanks for sharing that with us. So, you know, in talking a little bit about skills, but just keeping it here on a personal level for a minute, if you could put which skills are the skills that you think made you successful? Could you answer that.

Tony: They always call it like these soft skills but now I think a lot of people are no longer really content to call them soft skills anymore. They they’re starting to call them essential skills. I think everybody, there’s going to be essentially two sets of skills. There’s going to be technical skills.

And so you are going to need to learn some technical skills. Except I think what we’re seeing is now that the technical skills must be refreshed every once in a while, but you still need a certain set of technical skills. And then there’s another set of skills. That’s more with managing yourself and managing the relationships and those skills allow you to be more adaptive because once you talk to more and more people, [00:04:00] you get to see, Oh, this is how the world is changing.

This is what people need. As you sort of see that you can kind of see, say, okay well, what is what is the overlap between what other people seem to need and what I am happy to provide, and then that allows you to essentially orient yourself towards developing more technical skills that you need.

Of course now at this point I’m in administration and teaching and there is still some technical skills. Like, I still have to figure out how to do zoom, for example.

Kelly: Is that a skill you needed to learn?

Tony: It is, I’m much better at it. I still have a lot to learn about it, but that’s something that’s like, Oh, I have to, originally I did a lot of speaking in person and so I was like, well that was a skill that I did. But now it’s like, I have to change. So now I have to figure out how to teach online.

Kelly: So it’s just about pivoting.

Tony: Yeah and then it’s all about like, okay, there’s some people [00:05:00] and I have to figure out how to provide value to them and then that kind of guides me in terms of the skills I need.

Kelly: Yeah. I mean, like, I just was thinking of this because I’m looking at you with the microphone and you had just mentioned to me before we started that, you’re like, well, I got this microphone because I’m teaching people online and recording these courses.

I want to make sure that they can hear me. So I agree, there’s so many new skills, especially during this time that we’re picking up, but I like the idea that there’s sort of that foundation core skills and then there are other ones that you’re constantly renewing yourself on. I know, you know, terms of like jobs always changing, obviously that’s going to be very important.

So for you, did you feel like your skills came from formal education? Did you feel like these were things you were learning on your own, like a mix? What do you think is kind of the best way in terms of picking up skills?

Tony: Yeah, I think working in higher ed, I think higher ed is going to be under a lot of pressure in the future. Part of it is because, [00:06:00] I know I don’t mean to be too hard on higher ed because there’s a lot of well-meaning people, but the question is like, what does the higher ed prepare you to do exactly?

You know, if you take a look at a lot of the classes that are offered, what does that actually provide you to, you know, allow you to do, does it teach you core hard skills or does it in a lot of times it doesn’t. I still believe like, yes between going to school and not going to go to school, but I do also feel that it is no longer the responsibility, like you can’t just say, well, the university is going to teach me everything I need to know. I just need to get a degree.

And then boom, I get a job. That’s not the case as much anymore. Even as you’re going through school, you’ll have to think about your, I would just say you’re still responsible for your skillset and don’t expect that somebody else is going to spoonfeed skills to you, [00:07:00] that there are certain things that you’re going to want to learn in it.

The further along you get in your education, what’s nice about it is that you can choose the things that you want, because it’s no longer like you’re in third grade and they make you do stuff. You’re, you know, once you’re in sort of like your mid twenties, you kind of get to choose the type of skills that you want to develop.

So that’s, to me, pretty exciting.

Kelly: So having the person really like take the reins, make their own choices, and figure out what they want to build over time. That makes sense. So the reason that I really wanted to have you on the podcast is because of this article that you wrote, that I read and shared on LinkedIn, which I absolutely loved, it’s called the Most Important Career Advice.

And you discussed something that you called the MD plus, and I really loved this concept and I’ll give like a little brief, but then I’d love for you to dive in a little further on it, which is essentially that if I go to medical school and I get a standard medical degree, I’m just like every other person that has a medical degree and [00:08:00] what is my plus?

And the reason I love that so much and I think I mentioned to this to you in kind of the back and forth comments that were sharing was that I have a sister who is currently a freshman at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill. She wants to be an anesthesiologist, but of course, everything that happened and internships and all the things that are going on this summer, she is struggling with what to do.

So when I read that article, I shared it with her and she was just like, man, I sent her an opportunity that was totally out of the field of medicine and what she had planned on doing this summer and I was like, you know what, though? This might be a really good idea. So tell us a little bit more about MD plus, and what you mean about the plus?

Tony: Yeah. I get to talk a lot to students. This is a really great privilege and I get to be inspired by a lot of students who do very unique things with their career. And, you know, in the article one of the people I mentioned was a person who [00:09:00] studied architecture before they became a surgeon. And and he, when I was with him in the training he came up to me and says, you know what, I kind of really like architecture what should I do? Because everybody else is telling me to just give that up because you’re a surgeon.

And I said, well, if you gave that up, you’re kind of giving up a certain unique part of you that, I believe that if you stick with it, obviously you still have to go through training and you have to get through done or, you know, do it properly and so forth. But if you keep that part of you, which is very interested in design and architecture you will find that later on, there’ll be an opportunity for you to merge two of them.

And then as you merge the two things it will make you different from other people and then therefore, then you’re just not just another surgeon. You’re kind of the surgeon that knows how to design buildings. And so in his case, he ended up, he’s still in residency [00:10:00] but he’s a chief medical officer for a major architecture firm.

Kelly: Wow!

Tony: Well, I know, I know. And it’s like, this is an opportunity. And so it’s one of those things, but you know, it’s not an easy path because you do have to do a little bit more work and other people are going to discourage you in the beginning. And so there’s a little bit of the, so what I want to make a distinguishing factor is like, I didn’t tell him to quit his job as a surgeon.

I was like, I’m not saying quit your job. What happens is like, if you can figure out a way to combine two different fields, things that you’re really interested in, you’ll find that there’s going to be interesting opportunities for you.

Kelly: Yeah. Now, would you say that if someone was going to approach kind of adding to their, whatever it is right there at figuring out what their plus is, do you think that always has to be like a formal schooling or do you think that can be, [00:11:00] they can figure that out in other ways?

Tony: Yeah.

I mean, I have another colleague and she really likes kind of theology and she’s awesome. So I said, well, you know, she does not train in theology or anything like that, but she is able to have a certain type of conversation with patients that I would say the average doctor doesn’t because their medical training is fairly secular.

But a lot of the patients are not necessarily secular. And so in a way she’s able to bring that extra part to patient care, because she’s really interested in that in the aspect of being able to talk to patients about their beliefs. That’s another part where, you know, once you kind of integrate that part, I think you, you kind of make that profession yours.

It’s kind of practicing it in your own way and I think that that makes it fulfilling. [00:12:00]

Kelly: And I can imagine too, like in your practice, if you are a doctor with sort of this like specialty or this way that you care for your patients or communicate with your patients, that helps you stand out too, like you will attract a certain type of clientele that really wants to work with you because they really appreciate that addition that you’re bringing to what you’re offering.

Tony: Yeah, I know. I talked to a lot of people and like right now, because I’m at a medical school, I talked a lot of doctors, but I’ve in the past I’ve also worked with business customers but right now in talking to some of the doctors and I asked them like, what do you want to do? I was like, I want to be a good doctor. And I said, well, I would say, I want to tell him, like, that’s not really quite definitive enough because it doesn’t, what does that mean exactly?

 And so I sort of say like, you know, if you were to write a memoir about your career, and what was it that you brought to the profession and what is it from you that you [00:13:00] brought uniquely that was like you what would that be? So I do think that right now, of course like the counterintuitive things like people may think, I just want a job.

The thing is, is like, actually, yeah, I know you do want a job, but you actually make yourself much more hireable once you take the time to kind of go in both avenues you are doing, you’re developing your technical skills and sort of that foundational, but you’re also developing your own kind of niche skill.

Then once you’ve developed the two of them that does actually make you much, much more employable.

Kelly: Completely. Well, I feel like that concept right there that you’re talking about and just the way you most likely talk to a lot of your students, I know you shared with me, let’s see what you call it.

You created that career journey diagram a couple of years ago and I kind of wanted to delve into that a bit more because I loved it. Not only the way that you approach that, but also I’m just like, so interested in how you might have conversations [00:14:00] with students around this. Because of course, as I said earlier just because we say the word student doesn’t mean that like everyone is a student, right?

We’re all like lifelong learners in this particular sense, like we’re always adding a plus every time we read a book or every time we learn how to do something new, like zoom or create that course online, or for me a podcast. Right. So when you think of that diagram, like, kind of help us visualize this diagram and you know. So I’d love to hear a little bit about some of these conversations you might have with students around this particular approach, I think is really fascinating.

Tony: Yeah. So I’ve been, I’ve been talking to a lot of people, even from people who are applying to college, so all the way to people who are nearing retirement. And so I talked to the whole gamut of people. If you talk to enough of them, you’ll get a sense of like what the stages are.

And so I kind of broke it down into four stages. And, and because I’m in Utah, I used the mountain, like climbing a mountain [00:15:00] where at the bottom there’s more people but as you go up and up, it’s become more more lonely and to some degree because it’s such a hard journey.

So there’s these four stages, the first stage is about the ability to manage yourself. I do tell people that look, people have aspirations for leadership and dah, dah, dah. And I say, you know what, that’s fine, but you first have to be able to set your alarm clock and wake up and go to work and you actually have to exceed, you actually have to exceed the expectations of your current role in order to move on.

Like, you can’t actually manage people or have great responsibility if you can’t manage yourself. And so, like the first thing is kind of very fundamental, which is like, you actually have to have some discipline again, you have to have skills. And so in a way you [00:16:00] have to practice something well.

Like, and so before you practice something well, don’t think about other things. Figure out something that you’re going to practice well. And then over time as you practice things well, you’re going to find that you’re going to find that you can help other people and then so the second stage is about developing relationships and because at a certain skill level, You’re going to be able to be a master and be a teacher.

So you’re going to have your have greater influence only because you exceeded you went beyond managing yourself. Then what happens is you begin to do the work of managing others. Then there’s this third stage, which is about managing change, which is that later on at a certain stage, you’re going to practice it to such a degree that you will actually influence the industry itself.

That you will actually, like, you’re not just like taking somebody else’s rules and applying them in, you know, giving directions to people, but you will actually [00:17:00] be a thought leader within this. Of course that’s not common because of the fact that it’s all about how much learning are you willing to do, you know?

Kelly: To move up to that part. Like we’re almost at the peak now, right?

Tony: Yeah and so like the more learning you’re willing to do, the more sort of that, it’s a lifetime of advancing. And then the fourth one is about this, they call it this mountain with no top in that diagram. It’s because in a way you’re kind of finding the ways that you are truly unique. And I don’t say that in a way of like, everybody’s a winner type of way. You know, everybody gets a participation prize. Like you do have that, you do have a unique skill. If you take the time to develop it, it takes a whole life time to actually get to that point but the further, the more skills and the more learning you do, the more you begin to actualize yourself. So that’s –

Kelly: True and I feel like it’s that concept of like, if you’re not [00:18:00] growing, right, you’re like stagnant. So that’s why that mountain has no top because you can keep going if you want.

Tony: Yeah. It’s like, it’s never ending.

It’s like, hopefully, hopefully you’re learning throughout your life.

Kelly: Right. Now when you talk to your students, like, and my assumption is always that, when someone in a university is talking to students, they’re referring to learning in a more formal way. But when you talk to them about this, do you mean like a combination of formal and informal?

And when I say informal, I kind of mean like, it could be through any means, right? Like at work, you know, at your work you’re learning these things right. Or it could mean you’re just trying to figure out something new on your own. Informal means a whole slew of other ways, besides actually just like being at a school.

Tony: Yeah. Yeah, I’ll give you an example. Some years ago, about eight, nine years ago, I was talking to a med student and he was saying like, you know, I’m just kinda curious about how I should spend my time in med school. And so I, I asked him like, what are you really interested in? He said, I’m interested in [00:19:00] technology applied to medicine, specifically telemedicine.

And of course, telemedicine is much more ubiquitous now, especially with what’s going on now, but eight or nine years ago, it was like a niche, very few people much about it. I said, well, think of it this way. If you went into the library and just like read as, as much as you possibly could about telemedicine in those two hours.

Once you finish reading in those two hours, you’ll know more about telemedicine than 50% of the faculty here once you, because it’s like, it’s a niche thing. So if you spend two hours a week for a month, let’s say if you did take eight or 10 hours of solid research on it, teaching yourself, you’ll know more about telemedicine, then 90% of the faculty here.

If you do four years worth, let’s say all your whole time in med school every week, you took some time and taught yourself a few things about it and spend [00:20:00] disciplined time. By the end of medical school, you’ll be one of the experts in telemedicine, you know, and you’ll just have graduated med school.

And you think about like now, it’s like telemedicine then was like, wow, that was a thing. But now, you know, it’s coming, you know, it’s here and it’s like, you kind of want to think through what is the future thing that I can begin to invest some time now? Yeah, this is just separates it from the normal.

The normal training you get, because like in med school, they’ll train you a certain set of things, but I say, that’s what everybody gets. You need to know it, but you don’t want to overinvest in generic things like you’re going to want to take 10, I would say 10 to 20% of that time and invest in a niche thing that you are interested in.

And then those two things together create the opportunity.

Kelly: Yeah. That’s really, that’s really great. I [00:21:00] love that you’re giving the students these, I mean, because it seems like it’s outside of the box probably to so many educators to talk about lifelong learning in this way, but I just love it because I think it opens so many doors to people to realize that like, you know, I’m a mother of three.

I’m like I wish that I could go and sit back down at school, but that’s just not going to happen. And the fact is that there are so many other ways to learn. It’s just, we don’t necessarily think that that’s like a learning opportunity, right? Like that, this, this thing that I’m trying to figure out, or me going and doing research or reading like, Oh, I don’t know.

But it really truly is.

Tony: Yeah, you could. It’s like, you could read a book. You could, there’s so many resources out there. It’s like, all there are, is resources right now. One example I’ll give you is I don’t know, some, some years ago, I was listening to NPR and they were saying you know, most of us drive every day, but there’s all this practice of driving, make us better drivers.

And it’s like, no, [00:22:00] actually right. It’s bad. The question is like, because of learning needs to be deliberate, you can’t commute and you think just because you’re doing something for a certain amount of time, it doesn’t mean you can, you can be. And one example, I tend to give them some of the workshops is I ask people like, okay, in 10 years from now, you’re going to be like a driver for the CIA.

You’re going to have to be an awesome, like an expert driver. What are you going to do? You can only invest like two or three hours a week over 10 years. But what are you gonna do it, everybody come up with these ideas and it’s like, yeah, see, that’ll work. Like if you did this thing for two or three hours a week, like you will, in 10 years, you will be, you’ll be an outstanding, you’ll be like top level driver.

And so it doesn’t require you to quit your job. It just requires a little bit of a deliberate time set aside to learn.

Kelly: So when you say deliberate time set aside, like I’m thinking [00:23:00] of course, like, yes, of course, I’m going to sit down and I’m going to focus on this thing, but is there something else that you think helps make that time more deliberate?

Like I find if I take notes and I write like, there’s something about me reading something, but then also taking notes that like solidifies it and to me it’s like I can’t just do it once. I need to continue to practice that, like you said, so are there other ways where you could take that time and focus on something, but make it even more meaningful?

Tony: Yeah, I think there’s like three main modes of learning. One of the modes is like you reading and you’re thinking, and you kind of like are kind of, it’s a little bit individual. There’s another mode where you could go and talk to or train with somebody who’s more of an expert.

So somebody teach you or mentor you. And so if you’re trying to learn something, I recommend that you reach out to people who are already good practitioners. They can, they can cut that learning time a bit. And then the third part is you need to [00:24:00] practice. And so it’s like, you can’t, let’s say if you wanted to be a really great driver, you can’t get there by reading.

You can’t just read. And so, but it’s useful. But you gotta start practicing. And so, yeah, so those three things you’re gonna, you’re gonna want to mix those three things, if you kinda have a good balance of those three things and you do it deliberately, I’m not saying deliberately means 40% this it just means like –

Kelly: Yeah, the focus is there. Yeah. You’re really like, okay, this is it.

Tony: Yeah. You will start learning.

Kelly: That’s so nice. So I know you shared with us a couple of stories about some of the students you’ve chatted with, is there anything that you think would be like a great takeaway for a person that might be considering, you know, how else do I kind of like beef up myself or my life beyond obviously the deliberate learning, but like, is there any focus areas that you today [00:25:00] you’d be like, Oh, you should be thinking about this?

Tony: Yeah. I mean, I think it’s kind of interesting. Let’s just kind of like brainstorm a little bit because it’s, this is kind of an interesting time.

Because a lot, I’ll delve into this idea of skills and value, and I think about almost rather than from a knee perspective, it’s almost like what is, why skills? And I sort of view skills as you need skills in order to provide value to society. And, and so it’s like, And in a way, your skills is the way that you choose to provide value to society.

So don’t think about it as a job, think about it as like, what is it that you’re going to contribute? You know? So then if you look at it that way, there’s actually, it opens the doors quite a bit too. There’s a lot of different ways you can contribute. It doesn’t have to be through in exactly a career path, you [00:26:00] know, I mean, yes, but the more and more it’s like a little bit less about them.

So in a way this idea is like, what do you like, it’s almost like, what do you like, and how are you going to get better at that? And then once you get better at that, how, who needs that? You know? And so it’s, what’s kind of interesting now is that is there’s all these tools there.

What happens, what I mea, is like I was driving home from a family vacation and I was listening to either a podcast or audio book, and it was talking about this family in Utah. I was like, Oh, I picked up because I was like, Oh, family, Utah, the son’s name was, It was a father and son combination and the son’s name was Lincoln.

And I was like, Oh, that’s my son’s name, is Lincoln. And so I had to think like, Oh, the universe is trying to tell me something.

So they apparently have this YouTube channel and this [00:27:00] YouTube channel is them cutting things in half and seeing what’s inside of things, and they have like 6 million subscribers, which if you have about 6 million subscribers on YouTube, you’re actually pretty good. You’re, you’re making a good chunk of change there.

And so, and of course, like that’s not like a That’s not a one of those like career paths.

Kelly: Right. You know, you don’t go one day I’m thinking that I’m going to cut some stuff in half.

Tony: On YouTube. It is sort of like, it is sort of like, Oh, wouldn’t this be cool? And it came from that. Right. And then of course there’s all these skills that, yeah.

You need to know how to produce video then that, that suddenly skills, right. That’s one example. And then another one is, I teach a course on design thinking. And I was talking to students about the future and how the future is going to be a lot more humanistic than it has been. I was giving the example of [00:28:00] all these industries, like, let’s say, even look at farming, it used to be, there was very manually intensive.

And then now there’s a bunch of machines doing stuff, right? Like something’s not quite awesome with machine things, because now you get, it’s a bit, it’s a bit corporate. So now you have this organic farming, which is like, it’s not as it doesn’t yield qoute unqoute as much, but the quality is quite good.

People will actually pay more for it. And so this is the same type of thing. It’s like, you almost want to have an ordinary, like an organic thing because if you add the human touch to it, It imbues it with value because people want that. So a student came by and said after class and said, Hey, yeah, I was listening to what you’re saying.

And what do you think about this? My brother, he is essentially starting his own little business, helping people find like vacation deals online and dah, dah, dah. [00:29:00] And I said, Oh, you mean like a travel agent? And

Kelly: But he was like, didn’t know what that was.

Tony: I’m like, I’m like 40, almost 48 years old.

So I said you know, back when I was young, a kid, we had travel agents and they helped us book tickets, but now we don’t need any travel- we don’t need anybody to help us book tickets because like Expedia can do that much, much better. We don’t need it. But what happens is one thing that Expedia can’t do is add the human touch. So for example, if your brother decided to say, you know what, I’m going to focus myself on a region of the world, let’s say Patagonia or something like that. And I, and I knew that area very well and I can guide people to the right things for that niche. Something that a computer can’t do.

Kelly: You can create all those guided tour, like the special things and like the experiences. Right. I only say this because I used a travel agent to help [00:30:00] me book like when I first took the kids to Disney, it was so overwhelming, the thought of like all the things you had to set up and she just did it all for me.

And it was like a beautiful, and I was like, wow, I would pay for this.

Tony: Yeah, I know we used to pay for it and then it kinda got all the transact- I say, all the transactions are on their way to be done by robots and computers. All the human touch, things are valuable. And so that’s one of those skills it’s sort of like, you think like cutting things in half and putting on YouTube, what economic value is that? It’s like, not, it has no economic value, but it is interesting to people and so anything that’s kind of like, what do people need?

Kelly: Yeah if it’s valuable then, right?

Tony: Yeah. And so what’s valuable, it’s funny, but what’s valuable isn’t what’s like, I call it a commodity, like don’t produce commodities, like produce almost like artistic things. You know, your artistic thing [00:31:00] is not just art, but it is a practice, that discipline, combined with your perspective and if you can combine those two things, what you create is pretty unique and you’ll find that people like that human touch.

And so that’s kind of the future. That’s kind of like what I encourage people to kind of that’s what kind of diversified, just kind of find that niche, you know,

Kelly: Yeah, I love the way you’re talking about this, because that’s kind of the way I have been thinking of it lately as well, is just trying to figure out like what it is that I, if I don’t mentor students, but I do, for whatever reason, people like to come to me to help them find jobs a lot.

And I’m always like, what do you want in your life? And they’re like, I’m looking for a job. And I’m like, no, no, no, no.

So it’s like, let’s, let’s have like a visualization exercise. Let’s like, let’s picture your life if you had all the things you wanted and let’s work back from there.

Tony: I know, it’s like everything, like once, [00:32:00] it’s always, I always go back to like dating when it comes to an analogy. And then, so it’s sort of like, people’s like, I just want to find a spouse and I go like, Great, but who’s going to want to marry you. Why would somebody want to marry you? And you’re going to have to think less about, I need a spouse and more about how do I make myself attractive so that people will, and so this is again, kind of the value producing mindset is like, how do I make myself better? And then once I make myself better, then I can get, you know, the spouse, the job and all of those things.

Kelly: Right, right. No, I get what you’re saying. Well, I really appreciate all these thoughts is there. I know we’ll be, we’re wrapping up here, but is there anything else in particular that you’d like to share about some of the stuff that we’ve talked about today?

Tony: Yeah, I was listening to [00:33:00] a podcast, you know, I listen to more podcasts now, and they’re talking about generations, talking about millennials.

And in a way it’s been kind of hard for millennials because there’s a feeling, there’s a sense that I totally get it. I’m a gen X-er. In a way it’s like, there’s a lot of things that were sort of promised to millennials that it didn’t kind of pan out. I would just say the world needs millennials to create new things now.

Like we would, like, I would encourage people, like if you’re younger I would recommend, like, I would really recommend that you just think like, go create something new, go create something and don’t wait for the system to kind of show you, because the system itself is changing so much like we’re never going to go back to what things were like six months ago.

And so who’s going to create the future and it is going to be sort of a younger people. So it’s terrifying from a point of view of how do I do that? It’s like, yeah, it’s hard. [00:34:00] But if you kind of put yourself in the perspective of like, I’m going to figure out a way to provide value in some, in some way that I really like doing, you’re going to find that leads to sort of, this top of this mountain. It’ll lead you to read.

It leads you to create something and it will be of great value to society. So I just wanted to kind of give that message to people.

Kelly: Yeah, I love that. In the article that I read that, into your article, I remember the one part where at the beginning you talked a lot about the problem solving.

Like, if you are problem-solving, if there’s right now, there’s so many new problems too. But if you continue to figure out like how to solve a problem, like that’s you creating something new and sometimes it doesn’t seem so hard when you really see that there’s an issue and you’re like, Oh, maybe I can think of a new way to tackle that.

Tony: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It’s like, there’s always ways. And just, just, if you’re always [00:35:00] learning and making yourself better and solving problems, you’re going to be fine.

Kelly: I agree. Well, thank you so much, Tony for joining today. And thank you all for listening to Let’s Talk About Skills, Baby.

If you like this podcast, please subscribe, share with your friends, I would love to get a rating or review from you. Of course, if you’d like to follow me Kelly Bailey, you can follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram at Kelly R. Bailey. I’d love to hear any feedback or suggestions you might have and would really appreciate your support.

Well thank you all and hope you have a great day.