Helping Individuals & Organizations Become More Resilient

Episode Transcript

SB S1 E1 – Rick Maher

Kelly: [00:00:00] Hi, everyone. Welcome to Let’s Talk About Skills, Baby. I am your host Kelly Bailey. Each week I chat with inspiring visionaries about the skills that make them successful, how they develop those skills, and their innovative approaches to improving skills-based hiring and learning around the world.

Come learn what skills can help you live your best life. So my guest today is Rick Maher. Rick, I’m going to tell a little bit about you where you jump in. So,

Okay, don’t embellish too much.

I won’t embellish too much. I’m going to let you share your takeaway for sure. So, Rick is the former president and CEO of Maher and Maher, a talent development consulting firm.

And he is the current president and CEO of Adaptive Human Capital, where he helps both individuals and organizations become more resilient and [00:01:00] agile. So, Rick, thank you so much for joining us today.

Rick: My pleasure, Thanks for having me. This is exciting.

Kelly: It is for me too. And, and so that all of our viewers or listeners know Rick and I are actually just a town over from each other,

Rick: But because of COVID, we can’t be in the same space.

Kelly: Exactly, here we are just virtually getting together. Hopefully it’ll be a lunch soon.

Rick: That’d be great.

Kelly: So Rick, I thought, you know, this, I gave like a very, you know, this is your background, but I would, I just don’t feel like that did you justice. I would love to hear a little bit more about your, you know, life story, your journey, however you want to put it.

Rick: Okay. Well, you know, I don’t know how much time we have, my life journey as it turns out is quite expansive now.

Kelly: But quite fascinating.

Rick: But yeah, you know, somewhere on the order of about 33 years ago, I [00:02:00] guess formed Maher and Maher there, as you mentioned it Maher and Maher is a talent development and really a change management consulting firm which I held for 31 years. Two years ago, it was acquired by Impact International who is now itself been acquired by AIR, American Institute for Research. And so it’s a pretty substantial enterprise now. But may started as a training consultancy. When I actually, I was working in the turnaround industry as an executive in California and my wife at the time was staying home with the kids.

We were starting a family and she had been a trainer in the cable industry. Right. It was her way of hanging a shingle without, you know, just staying home all the time and it blossomed into something, you know, much bigger. And back in the, in the nineties. I mean, here we are on broadband video talking as if we’re literally in the same room.

Well, you may not be old enough Kelly, but I am to remember when that wasn’t happening. I mean, we had AOL [00:03:00] and dial up and we got a call. In fact, I’m so old that my AOL address, I don’t use it anymore, but I’m still Rick Maher at AOL. I didn’t even have to go with Rick Maher and you know, but we got a call from Time Warner cable saying, can you be in the 37th floor of the timeline building on Monday?

We’re launching a new thing and we need cable trainers, we heard you’re good.

Kelly: Wow.

Rick: So my wife calls me, she goes, I don’t, I can’t go to this meeting alone. I don’t know what it is. And it turned out they were launching broadband internet for the first time in the history of the US which Maher and Maher launched, did all the training for, and and ultimately launched it throughout the US for them and for Comcast and for Cox in Atlanta, who is still a client of theirs.

So, you know, we were called to make major change, right? One day you’re selling HBO. The next day, a technician is connecting cable to your computer. Right. So it was a major shift [00:04:00] and we learned from that and then migrated into government, where of course we do a lot of work now with the department of labor and I’ve been involved in a lot of huge things.

Your focus is on skills. One of the first projects I got in government was for the launch of what is O NET, Occupational Information Network, which at the time was going to be America’s common language for skills and some degrees still is, right.

So, yeah. It was a journey that, I wish I could say I planned every step of it. I think we were successful in doing, is doing a really good job when clients came to us and as a result, more people came. So, you know, over the course of 31 years, the company grew, we became very good at what we did.

And now I’m on the board and I do a podcast called Talent Talks for them and starting up Adaptive Human Capital, which is really my passion. Why do people [00:05:00] resist change, how can people get more comfortable with disruptive change, both at the individual and the organizational level. So I’m having fun and I’m happy to be talking to you about skills.

Kelly: Well, I know we’re always having fun when we chat for sure. Well, one of my favorite things about the beginning of this story as a mother myself, someone who also took a moment to be with her children and try to do the consulting thing. I just love how that was sort of the creation of this for you and your wife and your family.

And I also have a feeling that based on how you kind of went in and served some of these clients of yours and just figured it out along the way, that’s potentially what might’ve really led to this passion now and where your focus has shifted. But maybe before we shift into that, which obviously we can talk about all day long.

I’d love to hear over this journey of yours, what are really the skills that you think made you so successful as an individual, [00:06:00] but maybe also I’d love to hear how you might think that was brought back into Maher and Maher as an organization?

Rick: Well, that’s a great question. Honestly, I don’t know that I’ve given it a whole lot of thought, but I will tell you that, first of all, I always say to people I’d rather be lucky than good.

So there is a certain amount of being at the right place at the right time. I mean, why did we get the call from Time Warner? But the answer was because we had done a good job in what we were doing, and we were trusted. So the one thing that I think when I look back, if I had to count on things that I thought were important for me to whatever level of success I’ve been able to get.

Number one I say is persistence. I mean, I just don’t, I don’t accept failure. Right. I don’t do that very well. I’m not good at it. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve had plenty of it, but, I don’t, I won’t let it kill me. I just will keep, so that’s been a key, I [00:07:00] think for me. And the other thing is, I did a kind of a values survey, younger days of my life.

And it told me that what I was good at was helping people. And so I applied the persistence with a fairly decent set of skills in problem solving. And I tried to stay in a lane where I felt like I was doing something purposeful, not just about making money and that translated to Maher. If you know, if you had any experience and I know you have some with that organization, to this day and credit to Impact who acquired them and now AIR there is a culture there.

People will not stop and they will do, they’ll go above and beyond. I mean, we never stopped the job and said, we’re out of money. We need more, never. And our clients knew that if their skin was in the game, we were going to make them successful or go down with them. And, and that is a culture that we were able to build.

We had a [00:08:00] lot of working moms, including the founder, as a result. I was getting people that couldn’t, the government for instance, one, let them work from home. And I said, well, you can work from home here. And Oh, you got to, you got a kid’s little league game? Go, so do I. I’ll see you after, so that culture.

It allowed us to bring really talented people that we otherwise never would’ve been able to attract. So it’s kind of a long-winded answer, but those things combined made a difference.

Kelly: No, I mean, as an outsider, like I guess, you know, someone that worked alongside Maher and Maher, that’s definitely the way I would have described it as well. Anytime we were involved in a project with you at my time at Burning Glass, it was always like, we knew that was, you know, we could trust that that was doing well.

And I can recall in my early days, the young buck in this industry being on a call probably as like an assistant to an assistant of someone and I just remember you being [00:09:00] on the call and I was like, Oh my gosh. You know, but there was just something about, you know, there’s people in this industry that, they can have a chip on their shoulder. And you just never had that even when I was very young and didn’t know enough about this, like immediately, that drew me to you and to working with Maher and Maher. So I definitely what you tried to embody was there.

Rick: And I tell you, I should have said what I did best was surround myself with people that better, that were better than me.

So, you know, I’m serious. I did. And people always look at me, Oh, you’re an expert in workforce development. Honestly, there are people that know, the forgotten more about workforce development than I know, that work for me. I know a little bit about why people resist change, that’s that’s a strength of mine, but I let the experts be the experts.

Believe me. I did. And that was the smartest move I made.

Kelly: You’ve always had some really amazing employees there. So

Rick: Thank God for that. [00:10:00] And I’m proud to say every one of them, I think one may have gone into retirement, but everybody that was with Maher when I sold it is still there. In fact, it’s grown exponentially. So yeah, they’re, they’re still doing a great job.

Kelly: I bet, they’re an awesome organization. So we talked a little bit about the skills that you think made you successful, made, you know, Maher and Maher successful through this journey. I’d love to maybe talk a little bit about how you develop those skills, because obviously, you know, in the work that most of us are doing here in terms of hiring and learning and the economy.

We often talk a lot about, formal education versus informal education, versus building skills through work, and I’m just really curious when you think back to these sort of core skills, how do you feel like you gained that knowledge?

Rick: Yeah. Another great question. You’re good at this. Well first, I honestly think one of the [00:11:00] beautiful things about consulting is that you get paid to learn from your clients.

And I always credit, I mean, I’ve had really interesting, like the project at Time-Warner, but you know, again, when I moved into government, the first project I had was O-NET. And the person who approached me, later became an Assistant Secretary of Labor but at the time wasn’t, said Hey, Hey, I hear you do training and you’re going to get into government.

Well how about helping us with O-NET? I said what’s an O-NET? You know, because they had launched it, but no one was using it. And the same exact needs we had to make what are called the Roadrunner service originally.

Kelly: Oh I remember that.

Rick: Which was to get people who were in- yeah, that’s what we launched Roadrunner. So we had to get general managers who are only concerned about selling HBO to understand first, what was the internet?

And then why was broadband worth changing your entire business model [00:12:00] about, and what we learned about overcoming resistance and creating the right curriculum and the right environment where people can try and fail, we applied that in trying to get O-NET adopted. And we did, we launched the first online Academy called O-NET Academy to scale the adoption of O-NET across the country.

And so, first thing I’d say, Kelly, is we learned from our client experience, really. And then, you know, I have a master’s in IO psychology, which I do rely on particularly in the research realm for Adaptive Human Capital, but I always tell people, I took that master’s later in life and I really feel as though a lot of what I learned in it was validation of the things I had learned across my time as a consultant working with clients truthfully.

So you know, a little bit from school and from books, a lot from reading and just a lot from the practical application of living in the real world. I mean you can see a major change [00:13:00] come and you can see one individual who looks at it and says, wow, this is amazing what an opportunity, and just dives in.

And that the same change and a different person and it’s like the worst thing and I’m going to resist it and I lose all motivation. Why is that? And it doesn’t just happen with clerical staff, I’ve seen it happen with senior vice presidents, right. And that is, it’s such a drag on innovation. Yeah, it is. It’s it ultimately resides in fear, but I call it a prism.

Right? How is it that the same change twists that prism? Some person sees as a threat. Another person sees it as an opportunity. And the key of that understanding, understanding where on that spectrum, you reside as an individual and where your culture lets individuals reside because you have a lot of it has to do with the environment, has just always fascinated me. And again, it started by observing it [00:14:00] for my clients and then later getting into the educational thing and understanding more about the why.

Kelly: Right. So it’s like you would learn by doing first and really like tackling challenges, trying to figure out as best you can just like in the moment.

And then that was really validated through formal education where you could see like, Oh wow, this was, this is really something.

Rick: I’m not sure some of my earliest clients would enjoy hearing that, but that’s the truth. Yeah.

Kelly: Well, you know, when it’s interesting, when you have that sort of like mental capacity to look at a challenge in that way I would say maybe a lot of your former clients would take this and be like, you know what, we trusted you because of your mentality around it.

Not necessarily like they may have very well known that you had not worked in government at all.

Rick: They probably did check my resume now that you mentioned it. You’re right. Yeah.

Kelly: For our listeners as well, I just want to take one step back because we’ve been talking about, O-NET. [00:15:00] Now most people in our industry, 100% know what that means, but if you can just give a quick little description of what that is.

Rick: Yeah, O-NET, it was launched, I think sometime around the late nineties, 2000 ish, in there. The the Occupational Information Network. All right. O-NET was replacement for something they called the dictionary of occupational titles, which went back to the GI bill. And it was literally a book and it said here are all the titles, secretary, clerk, researcher, whatever the titles were in the US economy.

 They would use it for coding things like unemployment claims and for labor statistics purposes. Well, what they found was the economy was changing. There was this thing called the internet that hadn’t existed before, for instance. Right. And the dictionary of occupational titles was old and kind of had run its course [00:16:00] so O-NET became an online database of the knowledge, skills, and abilities in the American workforce.

So it would, it looked beyond titles, although it still is arranged by titles to the KSAs that people needed to perform a job. So it replaced the dictionary of occupational titles, but moreover it was designed to say, if the employers understand the KSAs and we, as let’s say, training providers understand the KSAs and educators understand the KSAs, then maybe we can have a common language that helps us better fill our hiring needs, better train our employees, better coach our our job seekers, and that’s what own it was designed to be. By the way, it has done a decent job of it but what has happened now is the private sector has grabbed on and taken it to new levels, which [00:17:00] is good.

That’s a good thing. But anyway, that’s what O-NET is and was.

Kelly: Yup. Super helpful. And probably a lot of times, most people everyday don’t hear about something like, O-NET is because, you know, you, we all talk about a job title or the skills of a job or goals that you’ve gained, we might talk about different company names as opposed to industries.

So it’s just because the language of the everyday person, like on my resume, I would never likely talk about those things but somehow diluted from the KSA is, are some of the words that, you know, we’re still using today, when you write your resume or you put some things on your social media profile.

Rick: Right and, and yet, now people like you, and before we went live today we were talking about a colleague that I’ve met at IBM learning and they talk about unbundling the job and getting down to core skills. And I know Kelly, that’s your space that you’re kind of the queen of skills, the language of skills.

[00:18:00] And so what we tried to do in O-NET 20 years ago now and did to some degree, is now really starting to become a focus, right? Yeah, and titles are almost getting to be meaningless and it is many, much more important that we dive down into what are the critical skills and what’s my best way of achieving them, because the half-life of skills is so shortened by technology that we’re always learning.

Right. So, you know, so O-NET was the beginning of this conversation about skills, which has really, I think, in the current day, taken on a lot more meaning.

Kelly: It’s definitely morphed and is further along, and I know you actually talked, you know, one of the comments you just made, I did listen to that podcast that you had on Talent Talks with Sonya from IBM and you did mention that. So if anyone really wants to dive into this a bit more, I’m just going to mention like, Hey, check out that podcast as well. It’s a really good one.

She does a great job.

She really does. So let’s go dive in a [00:19:00] little bit to Adaptive Human Capital. I mean, I am just, you know me like beyond being in love with skills, growth mindset in my mind, what you talked about earlier that persistence. I actually recall in my early days, someone saying to me that you’re pleasantly persistent, I was like, I think that’s the way.

Rick: That’s a good thing. Trust me.

Kelly: Right, but those skills, you know, that’s something that I work with my children on really trying to instill like the ability. There’s so much that a person can be offered, but if you don’t have the wherewithal to know that you can go after that and you can achieve something like it’s really you have something blocking your way.

And I feel like that’s what you’re really focused on with Adaptive Human Capital. And I’d love to hear a little bit more about that and taking this passion in your life and moving it towards business now.

Rick: Well, you know, again, that whole concept of the prism and why does one person embrace a [00:20:00] change and another person, if you move their desk further away from the window they just shut down. Why? And again, I witnessed it in many different industries and government or the private sector. And I always, always, my masters in IO psychology, I focused on the subject of resilience and in my work there, the question was, is there a way to measure someone’s resilience?

And I correlated it to actually five factors traits in personality research. The first of which, by the way, is achievement motivation. So when somebody says you’re pleasantly persistent, they mean you have a high level of achievement motivation. So anyway, but the research there showed me. Yes. In fact, there is a kind of, I want to say it’s a set point.

A natural set point that you have, that’s rooted in your personality. That will help you start to understand how you might tend to perceive things either as a [00:21:00] threat or as an opportunity. That’s true, but further that, first off, the good news that I want to make sure people understand the traits and personality are about 50% genetic.

Which means they’re about 50% learn. First thing that was in my thesis and I remember at the time I wrote it, I was scared to death because there was very little research on this subject back then, and I was like, I’m going to just dive off a cliff and fail this course. The week before I turned it in the army bought resilience training from the University of Pennsylvania.

Wow. So I thought, Hey, so it can be learned. And the fact that you have personality traits that can give you a natural set point, is a way for you to understand your own natural tendencies so that you can embark on skill building, right?

Kelly: Sort of the same way that I think about skills. So you find where you’re at right now, right and how best you can improve.

Rick: And by the way, intuitively you’re doing it because as a [00:22:00] mom, you’re already thinking about how you develop some of these traits in your children. Right. So that’s awesome. But the other thing I found that’s different than some other folks that are out there now in selling solutions around individual resiliency, is that you can’t separate it from environment.

So in the world where it’s talking about at work world, we’ll call that culture. So I can be naturally perhaps very open to new experience, I can have high levels of self-efficacy. These are all traits of individual resiliency. But if I’m in an environment with bad, with lacks of vision, or has very low organizational justice, and very low levels of social support. I’m not going to be as resilient, right?

So it’s a combination that Adaptive Human Capital is focused on that we say it’s like an equation. Give me the individual resiliency of my workforce plus [00:23:00] my culture, my organizational agility factors, and I’ll give you an either more or less resilient response to organizational change.

So, you know, I’ve been talking lately, we’ve discussed this, I call it disruption by design, which is my answer to growth mindset for leaders to say, Look, you’re no longer just managing tasks and people. You’re a, you’re a culture curator. You need to make sure that you’re in creating an environment where people feel safe to try and fail, where people know that you have their back, where they understand your vision, where we’re heading and how I fit in it.

When you do that, you’re going to create a more agile organization. You’re going to create a place where people, frankly, Can enjoy work. And they can grow.

Kelly: Working isn’t just like it was in the past, right. It wasn’t like that factory that we envisioned where we just all March on and our, you know, and, and think about all of life, right. Even education is [00:24:00] making these same changes. They’re making this environment, your desks aren’t in a straight row. You’re really like, it’s a, it’s a whole different world.

Rick: Well it’s, it needs to be in all too frequently. It isn’t yet, but ironically I think the pandemic is going to wind up being an accelerator of change, Kelly. I think that a lot of the things that you and I have talked about before, such as reform and education, digital badges, micro-credentialing right, are going to be accelerated. And this is what I mean by disruption, by design, disrupt yourself educators from the inside, lest you be disrupted from the outside.

There’s going to be a good amount of transformational change that we’re going to be facing and therefore people have to get more open and figure out how to cope with it. Or we’re all going to wind up on anxiety medications. Right. And too frequently, too many of us are already. Right?

That’s where the [00:25:00] Adaptive Human Capitalism helps.

Kelly: Yeah. Well, I often use the example – it’s just I was thinking, as you were saying this, that I often use the example of like taxis and Uber. So talk like Uber just came in because the taxi system like that, that those companies, they did not.

Why would anyone ever want to pay with a credit card? Like all the things that now today we seem as like so simple, of course we wanted to do that as the consumer, but they just kept their blinders on and they were like, there’s always going to be a space for us. And then this other startup organization came in and just went crazy, like disrupted the whole thing and that’s happened a multitude of times. Like no one even knows the name Kodak anymore. You know what I mean? There’s so many examples throughout history.

Rick: Yeah. Polaroid. Blockbuster. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. And you know, my, my whole thing in the space that I am working with is, I, people [00:26:00] probably get tired of listening to me, but I’m trying to give them a warning and say, guys, come on. Let’s go. And also I noticed in this COVID and within the pandemic, there’s a, I think a lot of leaders are kind of getting stuck in, “okay, well, we’re going to put the big decisions on hold because there’s too much uncertainty right now. So let’s wait for this to pass.” Those are the folks that are risking disruption.

Kelly: Yeah. Whereas you and I are like, this is the perfect moment in time. Let’s go.

Rick: Right. Let’s do it. Now. Let’s talk about reinventing ourselves. Right. And we’ve talked about this. I don’t know. I didn’t create this statement, but I love it.

They said, you know, we’re not ever going back to normal, but that’s okay cause normal wasn’t working that good anyway, right? I mean, we need a better normal, not a new normal, a better normal, and that starts now and leaders need to be doing it now. So, if you can tell, I get a little bit jazzed about this stuff, because first of all, I just [00:27:00] think it’s a more fun way to work anyway, isn’t it?

I mean, let’s do something –

Kelly: It’s so much more exciting every day. There’s something always. So, so let’s like with Adaptive Human Capital, what I’m really interested to hear about is really how you help. I mean, like the concept is amazing. So how do you do this? Like how do you help an individual or an organization make those changes, learn, you know, understand where they’re at and learn what they need to do to be more agile?

Rick: So, you know, and that’s evolving. As you know, I mean, I’m developing and new content as we speak, but currently right now we have a workshop which I’ve now converted to webinar based stuff. That describes organizational, I call them the six critical factors of agile organizations and the individual resiliency traits. We have an online resiliency assessment.

Is that available to the public?

It is, yeah, it’s on our website. People can order it online [00:28:00] now. And you know, most recently I’ve done a disruption by design leadership series, a two part series where we explore the agility, organizational factors, combine it with the individual assessment and then do a tie it all together activity so that leaders can learn how to apply it in setting vision in, in improving organizational justice, in trying to capture a fail safe culture, which where failure isn’t a correction in a performance appraisal. It’s a learning opportunity.

 And next, we’re coming out with an organizational assessment, which allowed leaders to look at their, how they, and how frontline workers see the levels of agility in their organization.

Kelly: That’s so interesting.

Rick: And next we’re going to be coming out with, and we’re looking at partners for some of this too. We won’t develop it all. We may curate some of this, but we want to then bring the skill building modules in [00:29:00] for each of the individual resiliency traits.

So if my level of openness to experience is low, how can I improve on that? Right. So, yeah, so I mean, the goal here is first, I want to expose the language the people, create awareness, and then our next step will be to bring skill building to, to couple with that.

Kelly: I love that. So do you feel like when you start working with an organization or an individual in terms of the skill building, do you feel like this is a one-time thing or an overtime thing in terms of training?

Rick: No. Well, first off, you know, I always, we were been training business for years and I always tell people training can’t be an event, it needs to be a process. Right? So the way that I envisioned, for instance, our organizational agility assessment to be used is a windowing kind of a concept. Right?

So take it before the training and then maybe take it again in a year and then take it again in a year and, and have that become a barometer, a [00:30:00] measurement stick. Am I seeing my rates or organizational justice improve or not? And so, no, I see it as like anything else in your culture, it needs to be owned and embedded in everything that you do.

Yeah.

Kelly: It’s not like just like a quick fix diet that we go on to like fit into our wedding dress where like-

Rick: If only those things existed. Right.

Kelly: It’s a lifestyle change.

Rick: We know better.

Kelly: Yeah, no. And I mean, I feel like that’s probably, I know when I think about growth mindset, it’s like a constant thing like you, and I know I have to choose those things every day.

So, and I’m someone who naturally is just more apt to this, but you know, it doesn’t mean that it’s not difficult no matter what. So if you’re making those changes, it’s something that you need to practice just like anything else.

Rick: Yeah. And, and frankly, for some people it’s really difficult, Kelly. I mean, I, I agree knowing you.

Some of these traits are natural for you. They’re not as natural for everyone. And, and frankly, that’s what the [00:31:00] leader’s job is. You know, my first reaction to folks is that they say, “Oh, great, we’ll take this individual resiliency assessment and we’ll just hire resilient individuals.” No, it doesn’t. Well, first off if they were predictive.

They would be a hundred percent determined by genetics and not 50. Right? So number one, it isn’t predictive. And number two, too much of it is about environment. So yeah, I want to create awareness and health skill building on the individual level, but the real change needs to happen at the leadership level.

Kelly: So true. It really does have to be like a culture shift in the way that they’re learning, even someone like you and I, you put us in the wrong environment and that changes the way that we’ll act and, you know, potentially the way that will come, you know, everyday to work or whatever it is that we’re doing.

Rick: Absolutely. Yeah. So, I mean, this is a passion for me and I, you know, I’m doing it for those reasons now, frankly, we’re finally at the stage of life I’m not, you know, it’s not everything isn’t driven by the [00:32:00] paycheck as much, frankly, as it is by the fact that I think I’m making a difference for some people.

And don’t get me wrong. I’m still a capitalist, but it’s just, I’ve gotten to a place in my life where I could work on my passion, which is opposed to whatever somebody is telling me.

Kelly: Right. Yeah. And kudos to you on that. I absolutely love that. I, I love where your mind and it seems like this was always a passion, just maybe not the forefront of what you were focused on. So the fact that you can go there now and, and still be a change agent in this other different way. Especially when our world is so ready for this right now. I think it’s fantastic. So I think we’re coming close to the end here. Is there anything else that you’d like to add Rick, before we wrap up?

Rick: No, just that I’m really encouraged and excited, I guess, too, about the conversations that we’ve had and your focus, which is this whole area of skills. You [00:33:00] mentioned the talent talks podcasts with Sonya Malik from IBM, where they’ve identified the skills that they’re looking to hire. They’ve eliminated the need for a Bachelor’s to apply to IBM.

And they put out micro credentials to build those skills. I see that happening in your career in another place, this focus on skills. And increasingly I see that one of the critical skills that people are looking for is resilience. So, you know, I’m all about that conversation. And I’m going to continue to watch you and the innovations you’re bringing to the table too, Kelly.

So yeah, I’ve just, I’m gonna watch and observe from the outside and contribute anywhere I can.

Kelly: Definitely. And same here. I feel the exact same way. So you know, Rick, thank you again so much for joining us. I know for those of you who really want to keep in touch with Rick or follow his journey with Adaptive Human Capital and otherwise you can follow him on Twitter or LinkedIn @rickmaher.

That is [00:34:00] R I C K M A H E R. Adaptive Human Capital, you can find more information right on their website at adaptivehumancapital.com and don’t forget his podcast. So wherever you get your podcasts, I assume that’s everywhere, Rick?

Rick: Everywhere.

Kelly: Perfect, Talent Talks. Look that up. He has some fantastic guests. He really digs into a lot of these topics on a regular basis.

So check out that podcast, please subscribe. And I just want to thank you all for listening in to Let’s Talk About Skills, Baby. You know, this journey has been so fantastic. I just really think that if you enjoy this podcast, I would really appreciate that you go ahead and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, comment, offer a rating and a review.

 I would really appreciate you sharing with your friends as well. You can also follow me, Kelly Bailey. I’m available on LinkedIn. I’m available on Instagram and also Facebook, at Kelly R. Bailey. And I’d love to hear any of your feedback or suggestions, so feel free [00:35:00] to reach out with that as well.

Well thank you all so much and we hope you have a wonderful day.

Rick: Thanks Kelly.

Kelly: Bye.