Centering Humans in HR with a People’s Platform

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Kelly: You’re listening to Let’s Talk About Skills, Baby. I’m Kelly Ryan Bailey, and this season, we’re talking all about The Great Resignation. The global pandemic disrupted so much for so many, and one of the largest effects has been on where, when, why, and how we make a living. We’re taking a look at why people have been shifting jobs, paths, and careers at such an accelerated rate and how leaders from different industries are navigating this challenging time. Hope you enjoy this episode.

Hey skills nerds with me today is Kelley Steven-Waiss. Kelley is the founder, executive chairman, and chief product officer of Hitch Works.

She is also on the board of Form Factor, the chair of the advisory board for the Silicon Valley Education Foundation, Forbes HR council member and contributor, and has been featured in Forbes. The co-author of the Inside Gig, which she wrote with Eve Goldman. She was also a CHRO for 13 years. And I just want to mention that she is the recipient of the most influential Corporate Directors Award in 2019 by Women’s Inc.

And the YWCA’s Tribute to Women Awards in 2020. And let me just top this all off with she is married and a mother of four children as well. I have really been looking forward to Kelley on the podcast. We became fast pandemic friends, and we bonded over our entrepreneurial experiences, our passion to re-imagine, how technology enables talent mobility and navigating life as working mamas.

So buckle up everybody because you’re about to learn a lot. Thank you so much for joining us today, Kelley.

[00:01:55] Kelley: Thank you so much for having me Kelly.

And yes, we, I think a lot of friendships were formed in the pandemic. So I’m thrilled, so thrilled to be good friends and colleagues with you.

[00:02:06] Kelly: Same here. It’s like all of that challenge brings us closer together.

[00:02:11] Kelley: Absolutely.

[00:02:13] Kelly: So how did you become so passionate about talent mobility? Tell us a little bit about what makes you, you.

[00:02:20] Kelley: Well, never mess a good opportunity to solve a problem. One of the things that I realized while I was doing a lot of extra homework in the future of work with some other CHRO colleagues is that, not only an issue that I had felt over the course of my career, where I was just completely under leveraged, I had so much more to contribute.

I was in HR. I had run corporate communications. I’d done marketing, I’ve been in sales. I’d started a business from my couch, wrote a business plan and it was a retail company. So there was just, between life and work so much sort of under the iceberg that people didn’t know about me. And I thought, you know what?

We’re having so many people leaving these organizations because they just go for another job, another opportunity. And I’m like, that’s such a shame. Is there a way that we can do this differently? And in the meantime, there was this whole push for agile ways of working and lower spans of control and learning getting dis-aggregated.

And I thought, I started white boarding a solution when I couldn’t find one, I couldn’t find a digital solution. And I was just lucky enough to find a CEO who shared a similar vision. And was going to give me the wingspan, talk about being able to contribute on a broader basis.

Hey, run HR and spread your wings, develop this technology. So that was really the moment that I had.

[00:03:57] Kelly: I love that you also felt something yourself about being under leveraged and sort of, whenever we have this really strong personal experience, as well as the work that you were doing, and seeing that every day to sort of bring those all together, feels like a huge wins and super power moment.

[00:04:18] Kelley: Yeah. I was always, it’s funny. There was an article about me in 2010 about being an HR anarchistic, which are two words you don’t typically want to see together. I thought this is going to get me fired. The truth is I was always wanting to color outside the lines. It’s kind of a core principle around why it developed the software that I did is that people generally want to color outside the lines.

So a lot of what came out of this experience was that there wasn’t a solution for it. There were learning solutions, microlearning solutions, actually degreed was coming out at the time. I love saying David Blake I met when he was a kid. So I’m sure he won’t mind cause that means he’s still a kid.

But I was just motivated and one of those crazy people that thinks they can achieve anything. So when Carol Dweck came out with her book about their growth mindset, I’m like, oh yeah, Carol, I got that in spades. I’m just one of the crazy ones that think that I can build software when I’m an HR person.

[00:05:25] Kelly: Man. I love that book too. I think some of the interesting things that I hear when you describe this is that whole concept of coloring outside of the lines, like not being able to fit into a box and what that’s meant for the way that you have made transitions and I even hate to use the word career.

I tend to use the word life journey, right. Because there’s so many twists and turns to either the way that you look at this. And it sounds like to me, you’ve just been following a lot of curiosity along the way. How did you as a person navigate these various transitions? I always think audience loves to hear, what are some tips and tricks that they might use if they have big dreams that they want to follow?

[00:06:11] Kelley: Well, and There’s so much there, right? I think number one is to don’t hinder yourself by thinking that you can’t pursue anything that you’re not motivated to put the work into. So think big is really the core premise. I was really Fortunate to spend a couple of years with Roche Genentech at a point where I was sort of getting burned out in HR.

And I said, I just want to do something different. And I found a unicorn role where I had so many different skills that I just sort of fit the role for them. And it was really to drive innovation management inside of Roche in their product development org. And it was a combination of communications and change management, a little of everything and the kitchen sink, but I thought this is a scary and a great role.

And, and that’s a core premise in my career. Take the role that scares the crap out of you, right. Every single time. Although in my generation I’m a gen X, I remember being in interviews and they said, well, you’ve only been in that job three years. Right. And now it’s like, oh, you’ve been in the job way too long.

It’s been three years. That whole lattice versus ladder type job, I call it jungle gym career, is the type of career is really honored today. It’s actually the way you should think about it. And I’ll say that a lot of the Genesis of my seeing this lattice, was the work I was doing at Genentech, where they really were promoting people into different roles every couple of years.

I would meet many people who had been there their entire career because they kept being able to re-imagine themselves. If only companies, I was thinking as I was spending so much time in their innovation management function disrupting, how molecules gets to development. I started thinking should disrupt HR. We should allow for jungle gym careers. Now, how do we do it? And that became kind of the first catalyst to the digital assist that I came up with later. But honestly, I think that if larger organizations had this ability to give the lattice or the jungle gym career, would develop so many new skills, so many new connections.

And certainly, although there wasn’t a digital solution when I was pursuing the lattice, I had a mindset that I could achieve anything. And so all the twists and turns have made me what I am today.

[00:08:51] Kelly: There’s something else when I think about all of the conversations we’ve had, and you described this mindset of the experience of when you were younger with your mother, because there’s a lot of things besides when we come into our professional experiences, that sort of shape our view.

I see this as your, I will loosely call it the growth mindset, but you’ve said so many things that really attest to that coloring outside the lines, thinking big, taking the scary roles. That viewpoint must have happened much earlier than when you came into the professional world because a lot of times that professional world can kind of knock it right out of you.

[00:09:29] Kelley: Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And many, many times I Was asked this question and actually for those of people that read my book, it’s in the preface of the book, but was very fortunate. Not fortunate in terms of what happened per se, but very fortunate to have been raised by a woman who was fearless. Who mid-life decided that, although in the sixties, she could not become a police officer or detective, ultimately that was her objective to be a detective.

She joined the police academy in Los Angeles at 45 years old. So she was about 20 years older than everybody else, but she said, I can do it now. She wasn’t in great shape at that point in time.

But she was put through the academy, like all of them. And had the physical rigor and also the coursework that went along with it and everything from, you know, that the police officers have to go through. And it’s quite intense. And there was a six foot wall that she couldn’t get over. That was the one part of the physical agility that she struggled.

She had it built in her backyard. The replica of that six foot wall and she practiced and she practiced and she practiced. And entire academy, most of those cadets were my age because I was only 20 years younger than my mom, were standing around her as she made it over that six foot wall. Now, unfortunately days after her graduation from the academy, she was very sadly killed in the line of duty.

But her inspiration and her story really touched many, many lives. And certainly me as well, I was 24. We’ve all been in our twenties. They are tough years cause you’re trying to figure it all out but she left a sort of indelible mark on me that anything you set your mind to, and I thought she was going through a midlife crisis at the time she said I’m going to go be a police officer at 45, but she graduated from college a couple of years before that. She pursued joining the police force and and it really, mark on me that I don’t need to hold myself back from anything.

In terms of what I do now for a living, believing that you can change the world one person at a time. I really think that so many people have so much capability. They don’t bring to bear because of their mindset because they think they can’t do it. And I’ll tell you when I would sit on airplanes that first year or go to the bank and somebody would see my name and they would say, oh, you’re the daughter of, you know, Christie Hamilton.

And they would tell me how that inspired them. The message I would leave is you can do anything you set your mind to, you really can. So I hope that if there’s anything that I can bring to the world as to leave that indelible mark on a broader audience, even and change one person at a time.

[00:12:33] Kelly: Thank you so much for sharing that story. To me, you’re obviously continuing on this amazing, what your mom taught you and even just sharing that story, I think so many people will hear that. I can’t even imagine how many people will then take that into what they’re doing every day.

There is something so special about that and that concept of when you describe the mindset holding you back, I’m really gonna think about that wall.

[00:13:03] Kelley: It’s so funny that you say that because when she passed away, I thought about writing a book called Getting Over the Wall. A book about mindset. And it just turned out that her story landed in the preface of a strategy book, and a technology to help unearth this on a broader scale inside organizations.

I never would have anticipated that. But because I have two daughters, I have two sons as well, but I have two daughters. It was really important for me to live on with her example and for them to see that you can be anything you set your mind to. And It’s just a matter of if you have to put it in the work.

 Other than that, you may be the only thing holding you back. So I really do hope people hear that message.

[00:13:55] Kelly: And I don’t think a strange way, although some people might think it’s a strange way that those two things go together, mindset and talking about let’s say something like technology, but at the end of the day, all of this is human enabled.

And I totally agree with you that I think what you’ve learned from her and what you continue to bring to the world something so important in any context, because it really is everything. And the way that all of us make decisions, we’re making decisions in organizations every day about other people, about ourselves, so many things.

And if we have that view that holds us back then maybe we could be having a barrier to making a great position.

[00:14:34] Kelley: That’s so true. And one of the things that is most interesting about human beings is we are an amalgamation of life experience our professional experience. And so much of, as we have grown up is those experiences with our families and with our friends and how education, of adversities. When kids talk about how hard something is, I always say there’s somebody that’s having it a lot harder, but it doesn’t matter where you came from, it’s what you make of it. I would argue adversity you have, the better you can overcome lot of the objections or difficulties in the future. Like it’s how you turn those lemons into lemonade. And people always told me almost coming from obviously empathy and sympathy, but I certainly, when I gave that eulogy at my mother’s funeral, which was the speech of my life, I call it.

And I certainly could have been freaked out by the gosh, the governor, the mayor, the chief of police, that was all the media. But I was sort of in the zone of, if there’s one message I am going to send it is that, what would have made her an incredible police officer, even though that came up late in her life is her life experience, right.

She had been a mother. Don’t you think that would make a difference in her job? Because She would take that skill and that experience of the empathy that she had developed situations that she was facing on the job. And so, as we think about, we all employ humans. Human beings are dynamic and complex and they have been built up by all those experiences in our life and we need to value all of it.

So if we can find a way to visualize and capture and honor all of it, then we can make sure that people are doing the work that they really love and are passionate about. And certainly I live every day excited to jump out of bed and do what I do. I hope other people can too.

[00:16:54] Kelly: I can hear it. No, and I mean, I can hear it and I totally agree with you. And, before we dive in to hitch works, let’s talk a little bit about when that moment, when you were like, I can’t find the answer to making this happen for more people and I’m going to chase after trying to figure it out. Like you said earlier, even though I have no idea how to build technology or anything, you just decided, Hey, I’m going to go there. How did that all work?

[00:17:22] Kelley: Yeah, it’s funny because yes, I was not an engineer. So I’m embarking on building software in a vacuum would have not have been a good plan, but here’s what I counted on. I counted on that I could find the people, that I could put great people around me with different skillsets and I could get there. The belief system that if I painted a vision, I could get there.

To your question about evaluating how to do that, I really tried not to build hitch. I really looked for other solutions out there. I just didn’t see them all put together. My ultimate passion was to make work better for people, teams and leaders globally. That all people would find value in the work they were doing.

And the core thing I realized is that no systems really visualized the skills or the whole person. I call it the whole person. If you think about what we say on LinkedIn, we are talking about sort of an external facing platform. We don’t talk about what is the work you love and you’re passionate and you’re going to jump out of bed every day to do, because it’s kind of a bigger environment of people that don’t really know me.

But in an internal environment, where you can create more community, maybe I’m willing to go out on a limb and say, I’m here now, but where I’d really liked to be is over there. Here’s the things I’m willing to learn. There’s more of a sense of ability to be vulnerable in an internal community. And then could that community serve others by being mentors, whether career mentors or skill mentors.

So that’s, that’s kind of where the Genesis was of hitch.

[00:19:06] Kelly: I think of a business owner and especially I’ll press on the like a female tech business owner, could have been a challenge. We all know how you overcame that challenge of course, because your mind doesn’t even go there. You’re like what? This wall, it’s fine.

 But I can only imagine that there’s a lot that you have learned since you decided to take that step into changing that role or that identity for you in that moment.

[00:19:36] Kelley: Yeah. And started with not accepting, I could have certainly could have said, well, the data says to me that women aren’t funded and the percentage is so low or I’m going to have to go up to bat so many times. It’s the pandemic. I could have had a wall full of excuses, but I also remember as a child, there were a lot of adversity.

My parents divorced when I was really young. People said, well, aren’t you embarrassed that have two different families. And that’s just one of many lists of excuses that I could have had. People said when my mom passed that, your trajectory is going to be pretty low cause that’s probably going to take you completely off track.

Well, it didn’t. Again back to making lemonade with the lemons, sometimes the more adversity you have the more you’re willing to go for it. So I think that that really was the core of who I was. Right. I was going to the things that were atypical and I was not going to see those adversities.

And so when it gets to fundraising, now in truth, are a lot of challenges. We know that data says, I think in 2020, it was 0.01%. Maybe it climbed the 2% by the end of 2020, but a lot of female founders were not funded that year. And I was. But I did not see the challenge as my not being able to overcome, I was going to try it.

I was going to do my darnedest to get funded that year and I did. So a lot of it is mindset.

[00:21:18] Kelly: That’s awesome. I mean, besides the mindset, I’m thinking about this moment we are experiencing all of us now, man, the pandemic has rocked all of our worlds in some way or another making us think about what we want to do in the future. For a woman, and I know we don’t typically go in that direction here, but I’m going to do it anyway.

For a woman that might be considering trying something that feels a little bit too outside. Maybe they’re still new to their growth mindset and funding could be one of those obstacles. What would be like a great tip besides, Hey, get your mindset where it needs to be. What would be a great tip for them to overcome that or to know, like, this is a thing that I can do that works?

[00:22:04] Kelley: I think the first thing is sort of getting clear about what is it about what I’m bringing to market is really different and special. Let that be your motivation. Let that be your positioning. You wouldn’t be an entrepreneur if you were afraid because entrepreneurship is wrought with risk.

You have to be a little bit of a risk taker to go for it. I’ll tell you in my age, I’m in my early fifties, all my kids going to college every couple of years. I had the friends that said you’re crazy to leave an executive job and go be a startup CEO are you insane? And I said probably, but that’s exactly what has motivated me in my whole career.

So to other women who are embarking on this, is leaning into why you’re doing this. Go for it. And then I would study other people’s successes. Find people who have been successful and learn from them. One of the things that I did is I interviewed many women in venture capital investors, men and women investors, male and female founders.

And studied their success. And part of that was understanding where they failed to, because there’s no reason why you have to fall down and skin your knee times, if you can avoid it. That’s how I’ve approached everything in my life is try to leverage your network, do your homework, and then be fearless.

[00:23:40] Kelly: Such great advice. Well, let’s dig a little bit into hitch works because we’ve sort of broadly talked a little bit about this challenge that your life’s focus has been on solving. When you describe hitch, like what’s the piece of hitch, how were they trying to create a technology that would help be a part of this solve if you will?

[00:24:01] Kelley: Yeah, it comes down to the core philosophy behind hitch and partially my experience in HR leading human resources globally. One the things I found with HR software is it was really built for the back office. And I sort of studied that even as a user, like we all didn’t like using the HR software, it felt like it was for the back office.

What nobody had created is what I call people’s platform. So connecting a lot of the dots around diversity equity and inclusion, the need for transparency. How other platforms like slack or Miro or mural were coming up through the organization virally because they give you a great user experience. Not only are they helpful, but great to use.

But we hadn’t sort of applied that to HR technology. So could we actually create a platform decides to treat everyone like adults gives everybody access to the same information, gives people insights about themselves, gives managers true ability to empower their people and their development?

And a lot of people would say, well, no, remember when we did rankings and ratings and we said, oh yeah, we’re going to throw that away we’re not going to do that. What do you think people did? They went into the back room and created and do a formula to do ratings and rankings.

So was kind of a very disruptive thought we’re going to open things up and I’ll tell you what, when I was the CHRO at here technologies, I was sitting in Berlin and a town hall and all these employees were standing up and thanking me for the talent platform now hitch. I had never been thanked for HR software in my career. So something I was doing was right.

[00:25:54] Kelly: That does sound like two things that don’t always go together. I have to laugh about that because like, there’s just so many of us that have felt undervalued at some point. And obviously that didn’t seem to be the answer, but I love how you guys are trying. That you guys are pushing on this. Now when you think about this, what’s the biggest barrier to solving this challenge? Because it seems like we’re talking about it now and it’s like, of course, yeah. Let’s just do it.

[00:26:19] Kelley: Right. Sometimes what seems rational and application is more difficult. Here’s the core of the issue because I’ve studied it. I talked about it in my book.

We have grown up in a world built around scarcity. So there’s only so much time. There’s only so much money. There’s only so much resource. And we have built our entire management system around scarcity.

You will get only this budget and this amount of head count and now manage within the constraints. What we have not done is built for abundance and Peter Diamandis Singularity University talks a lot about abundance, right? And he wrote a book about it. Now, when we come from abundance, we have a totally different mindset.

And that’s where I came from. We have an abundance of incredible people with incredible skills and the ability to contribute. We need to democratize this. We need to open this up and know it will not create chaos. It actually will create so much more capacity and productivity and performance, watch. And so as disruptive as that was, the biggest blocker was leaders who live in scarcity and not abundance.

And I’ll tell you, when this light bulb would go off, wait, I get what I give. Wait, I give a little and I get a lot. Suddenly the abundance message, so that means when I let someone do 10% work in another organization and I got 10X productivity back at the ranch, suddenly abundance message makes sense.

Wait, I don’t just have 50 people, I can tap 8,500 people in the organization. Wow, that was just a huge win.

[00:28:08] Kelly: It sounds like it. And man, mindset again, right? I mean, this is a mindset issue again, which is always so fascinating to me. Our world really, truly the last decade, but especially these last few years, it is like a fire under this mindset of that scarcity mindset to this more abundance mindset.

I love that description. And I actually read that book to love that book. There’s so much of what you said here, that I know we’re talking about this one topic, but it applies in so many places and that’s why I’m just like, wow.

[00:28:44] Kelley: It’s amazing when you, I had a coach who told me it’s about the lens by which you look through your life, right? You certainly look at the glass half empty or the glass half full. And it applies to organizations. The great thing about human beings, the beauty of a human being is how dynamic they really are.

So again, we could tap into that 40% of engagement that gets left on the table, added up at scale, that’s a lot of lost engagement. And a lot of the lost engagement is because people aren’t excited about what they’re working on.

If we could get more people jumping of bed like firemen and women and going I know I’m going to be in a place where I can contribute, it is a lost of productivity. And despite the technology obsolescence we have, I remember 35 years ago, we were all talking about, we’re going to go work 32 hour work week because technology is going to add all this productivity to our plate.

Well, that didn’t happen. Right? Now we work 24/7, but human beings are what organizations are made up of. So if we can find a way to link them to what they’re passionate about, we are going to tap all the abundance in the world.

[00:30:09] Kelly: Man that is just, there’s no other word for me to say, but beautiful. Because it’s just so meaningful. And I think so many of us listening, whether or not we work in this industry or whether or not we understand it, we have all worked. And we can all understand and appreciate that feeling of when even you’re the most growth mindset enabled person, if you are in an environment that is like sucking the life out of you, that can start to drain your battery too.

And so the idea that in any way professionally, personally, if all of you could be recognized, if you were like almost in the circle of trust, knowing you could try things and do things different and it was going to be okay.

I mean, I just think of every time I think of that concept, I think of how that could change the whole world, right? Because it’s like one person affects how many other people, one organization affects how many other people.

[00:31:11] Kelley: Had this great conversation, Kelly, with my oldest Jack. Who’s at Northeastern and he’s a junior and of course Northeastern this great co-op program. And he’s like really contemplating, what do I want to be when I grow up? I wrote a blog about this over the holidays, the question is it’s kinda like falling in love. Do you get lost in it?

Do you lose track of time when you do it? That’s what you want to be doing. It’s kind of like the same conversation when I was young and my parents were telling me about falling in Do you get lost in it? You get turned upside down. You don’t even know what time it is. That’s what you want.

And my God, again, back to change. If you can convert one person at a time and then, is what everybody should be able to do. And sometimes it takes experimentation. Again, back to what hitch was about was, Hey, wait, maybe I’m not not in the right role. I’m not ready to commit to a full career shift or a new, job but why don’t I take my skillsets and apply them over there?

And guess what? I had the people come to me and say, you know what? I would have never had that opportunity if I hadn’t gone and done it. There we go, many of them changed roles as a result.

[00:32:33] Kelly: It’s so true. I read this article, I think it was last week about someone was describing the experience their husband had with work. And just talking about how their husband hated his job so much that he was seriously like clinically depressed. And so you can imagine right, what she was describing, she wasn’t even, it wasn’t even about this topic, but what she was describing was what happened.

Him home all the time, not liking what he’s doing for the majority of the time and how much that is affecting someone’s life. And the people around them. And so when you think about it in that reverse, you’re like, wow.

What if that person was always excited? Was always valued? Was always trying new things that just like sure. when that’s that thing that you were just describing where it’s like, it just, it really does change a lot.

[00:33:27] Kelley: Yeah, mental health is a issue in this country right now, as we come out of the pandemic. And so much of our lives spent working. So if we are not fulfilled in our work, it can affect all of our livelihood and certainly the people around us are affected. And so now on the flip side, cause remember I look at the glass half full.

If we are fulfilled in our role at work, whatever our work is, my husband’s a stay at home father and has been for 18 years. If that is what fulfills him, fills his glass every day and it does, he absolutely that. We’ve checked in multiple times. Then his mental health is so much better. I think we want to look a way to fill everyone’s glass.

I think companies changing their tune to say, we employ human beings. Human dynamic is made up of more than what they do for us. The beauty of the pandemic is we saw the fire alarms going off. My daughter used hand me her brush middle of an investor pitch and I’m like, try to look powerful.

And here I am, oh gosh. Now they’re going to see I’m a mom. I actually brush hair. I braid hair too, not well, but you know. So we just saw our humanness and what a beautiful thing that is. Now if there’s a way to all that up and make everyone’s glass full, that is our responsibility as organizations to care for the whole person.

And I think we could have a lot more healthy people if we can find a way to get them doing their best work.

[00:35:14] Kelly: Yeah, I’m going to cheers my glass half full to that.

[00:35:20] Kelley: Cheers back to You.

[00:35:21] Kelly: Thank you. So I’ve got one more question before we wrap up, what’s one thing on your career bucket list?

[00:35:30] Kelley: You know I made it. I had this desire to become a CEO, and by the time I was 50. And I achieved that actually, by putting mind to that. The privilege of leading people and developing a company like I had. I think on my bucket list is to continue the impact on a broader scale, driving what’s best that makes us human in areas like education.

And bringing digital solutions to other parts of the world where it’s not as ubiquitous. I think the work that I did in the education nonprofit ALearned, which then merged with the Silicon valley education foundation, really opened my eyes that there’s so much, so many people out there that don’t have the access to education and to develop their skill sets.

I’d really like to see that change. And so on my bucket list is probably, Kelly, maybe it’s sitting on a lot of boards where you have the oversight to helping companies develop those solutions that make a difference and have an impact. To Coach other really fantastic human beings to the mindset that they can be anything they want to be.

And maybe that’s becoming an entrepreneur to change the world and bring their ideas to the forefront. So I’m hoping that that becomes my reality. I know it’s a long winded answer. But that’s what I’m hoping for.

[00:37:01] Kelly: Oh, it’s not long-winded at all. It’s something that I easily see in your future and the value that you would bring. I mean, even in this discussion, I’m sure so many people will take away a ton, but to be able to interact with you, maybe even on an individual basis or in helping a business grow, hoof, exciting times to come.

[00:37:26] Kelley: Yes. And I remember when I was in Korea, one of the executives told me in Korean that I was a good Patriot to my country because I gave my country for children. And I said, well, also have a responsibility to develop at least four really great human beings. And part of that is being a role model.

Like the role model that I had. Hopefully I can extend that reach beyond the four that, that I brought to the world and teach them also something they’re passionate about that has a great impact on the world. That leave a legacy is the message. Leave a great legacy. So if everything ended for me tomorrow, Hopefully that’s what people would say.

[00:38:13] Kelly: I have no doubt that they will. Thank you Kelley so much for joining us today. I think everyone is going to want to keep an eye on what Kelley’s going to be up to on LinkedIn, she is available. She’s also available on Twitter. And of course, if you’re interested in more information, you can go to hitch.works And they are available on all the socials as well. I cannot wait to see what the future holds Kelley.

[00:38:42] Kelley: Yes. Thank you so much, Kelly.

[00:38:46] Kelly: Thanks for tuning in to Let’s Talk About Skills, Baby, a Growth Network Podcasts production. If any part of this episode resonated with you, we would love for you to share it with a friend or colleague who might feel the same. Feel free to reach out to me at Kelly Ryan Bailey on social and learn more about the great events and initiatives we have coming up at skillsbaby.com. Thanks again for spending some time with me and most importantly, have a great day.